Aqua-Soft Forumswell if it is a new window manager, but only includes aqua themes, no harm done right?
Only Serious Aqua-holics Need Apply...
i don't think it has been asked before in the topic, so i'm gonna say this hoping that the devs will take good notes of it :
PLZ make it multi-language support!
i don't wanna see one more time my PC half french, half english, & i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who will request this so please guys, first make a kick ass shell 
, but don't forget all foreigners. thanks.
Originally posted by tthomp11+Feb 27 2004, 04:37 AM-->QUOTE(tthomp11 @ Feb 27 2004, 04:37 AM)well if it is a new window manager, but only includes aqua themes, no harm done right?It'll be including completely original themes. To paraphrase the DevBlog - "originate, not emulate".
cool, XML is the best way IMO.
if ever you needs non english beta tester, i'll be there :smartass:
java script:emoticon('
')would you like to test smokescreen in russian language.
p.s. it may interesting...java script:emoticon(':smartass:')
Before everyone starts on the "let me beta test in language [x]" wagon, we don't want any beta testers yet - we don't have a single line of code written yet.
We'll ask for testers, if and when we want them.
so we dont loose focus, I think the best thing is to perfect it in english with a panther theme...THEN we should consider other options.
but getting sidetracked with a thousand languages and skins could hinder our progress.
perfection first, THEN customization
my 2 cents
Originally posted by Duckie@Feb 27 2004, 10:06 PMso we dont loose focus, I think the best thing is to perfect it in english with a panther theme...THEN we should consider other options.
but getting sidetracked with a thousand languages and skins could hinder our progress.
perfection first, THEN customization
my 2 cents
It's actually easier (from an implementation perspective, at least) to make a skinnable, multi-language app from the word go than trying to bolt things on afterwards.
Also, if we aim for open-endedness, it'll make it much easier to have skins exactly the way people want them.
Oh, and smokescreen is not going to officially be affiliated with any theft of Apple's Intelectual Property 
Originally posted by Duckie@Feb 27 2004, 10:06 PMso we dont loose focus, I think the best thing is to perfect it in english with a panther theme...THEN we should consider other options.
but getting sidetracked with a thousand languages and skins could hinder our progress.
perfection first, THEN customization
my 2 cents
Totally agree. I kinda see this project as too ambitious. You guys are like "yeah this will be 100% customizable complete shell replacement that will make you coffee out of your useless floppy drive (you put the grounds in a floppy and it grinds them for you))
You goal is to make something that’s like NEVER been done before for windows (from what I gather your plans are anyhow) I really hope this project goes places, as the first 2 times it kinda didn’t. You guys have a great team going, but you don’t seem to have any practical goals (I don’t know your programming abilities so maybe they are, but I doubt it, no offence) Why dont you guys get together and make a milestone type diagram, mabie with dates?
Originally posted by lostspyder@Feb 27 2004, 10:17 PMTotally agree. I kinda see this project as too ambitious. You guys are like "yeah this will be 100% customizable complete shell replacement that will make you coffee out of your useless floppy drive (you put the grounds in a floppy and it grinds them for you))
You goal is to make something that’s like NEVER been done before for windows (from what I gather your plans are anyhow) I really hope this project goes places, as the first 2 times it kinda didn’t. You guys have a great team going, but you don’t seem to have any practical goals (I don’t know your programming abilities so maybe they are, but I doubt it, no offence) Why dont you guys get together and make a milestone type diagram, mabie with dates?
GodPunk and I have practical goals.
We just haven't announced them, because we're waiting to talk to the rest of the team, first.
As for project management type stuff, trust me when I say that I know how to manage a project, and how to meet goals.
For the time being, though, we haven't got any hard and fast deadlines, purely because of the uncertainty factor that plays a major part in all the developers' lives.
As for the first two attempts, they consisted of a smaller team, with much less professional programming experience.
As for the abilities of the team - I've seen works from all the developers I've invited that are assurance enough for me to have complete faith in their ability. Whilst this may not count for much in anyone at Aqua-Soft's estimations, me having faith in a coder's abilities is something that's not often bestowed on people.
Also, I've done some precursory investigation (as have others) into what we'd need to do, and a lot of it isn't as hard as you'd imagine.
Also, don't forget that we're not talking about some 3 week programming project - we're talking about a suite of applications that will take 6 months to a year to develop.
Trust me, I'm going to be a doctor.
Wow! I see so much determination in you guys. Good luck!
Now some questions:
1. Will you include the concepts, ideas, suggestions of the forumers of AS while progressing on the project?
From the above posts, this seems to be a very 'private' team, meaning all the planning and decision comes only from the team (internal). Period.
2. Shouldn't the forumers be entitled to view the progress?
When the ball gets rolling, which I believe has commenced, can the forumers (us) have a peek at the developments? Leakage in the concept? I suppose this is meant to detract 'would-be' imitators and keep the project original right? I mean you wouldn't want MS or Apple to see your ideas, but what if they 'mimic' your ideas in anyway when it gets released? Wouldn't that be really cool? This project isn't purely made by one person so... credit goes to the entire team right. Legalities? The website of this project would be there to serve this purpose. These 'biggies' wouldn't want to violate these things right? Well not ideally at least. Any found similarities (features) and you still have the site to prove it (feature list/updates/etc. with date).
3. What is the exact scope of the project?
I'm not sure whether you clearly stated the objective. If smokescreen isn't equal to FinderXP then what exactly are the specifications? Again, if these things are not made public, clearly the project is internal to the developers only. But what if... you make this project like www.rustboy.com as to what open source is to MS source-code.
4. Will the project credit AS.org?
This project was clearly initated within the AS community... shouldn't the project give due credit to AS.org? I was thinking if you could add 'Aqua-soft.org release' or something similar just to let the user know that this application originated from this community. Hehe... give what is due they say.
5. Can we start adding suggestions for the scope of the project in this thread?
I'm hoping we (non-contributing individuals) could pour in suggestions to what project SS (Smokescreen) can do. Well, not exactly in this thread but somewhere in another thread of AS. Can I suggest we do a very 'intensive' brainstorming on the technical aspects of the current technologies first that would serve as the basis of the 'Official Guidelines' of this endeavor. I believe and insist that the more the many-ier! Two heads is better than one... etc. I also think that even non-technical people can give the best solutions/ideas since they are also computer users which is what this project is for... computer users. The actual technical specifications (from developers) should be based on the the intended(wish list) features (from forumers)... which is derived from the actual guidelines (from agreed feature list between forumers and developers). A good discussion as to what should be included and what should not be included is going to be fun to see (Guaranteed!). Non-technical as well as technical people can learn from this. Two birds-one stone. I hope this doesn't lead to a messy debate though.
No offense but just wanted to voice out my opinion. Peace.
Hmm, I'm running out of questions for now... but after having lunch, I could contribute useful (technical) features... that hopefully would be included in the release/s. 
Start one thing. Be inspired! 
Note: Sorry for any grammatical errors contained in this post... will edit for sure.
Originally posted by jerbau@Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AMWow! I see so much determination in you guys. Good luck!
Now some questions:
Are you like a lawer? good god.
Originally posted by lostspyder@Feb 29 2004, 06:24 AMAre you like a lawer? good god.
gotta love the enthusiasm he has for the topic
-bunkka :canadian:
Originally posted by bunkka+Feb 29 2004, 06:38 AM-->QUOTE(bunkka @ Feb 29 2004, 06:38 AM)gotta love the enthusiasm he has for the topic-bunkka :canadian:
Pertaining to me?!
Thanks!
Of course... isn't everybody hoping that this will be successful?
While Smokescreen is a cool name, the title is really supposed to describe the item's functional, and the word "smokescreen" is usually associated with firewall or security. It may be misleading.
Originally posted by Cruzn15@Feb 29 2004, 01:59 AMWhile Smokescreen is a cool name, the title is really supposed to describe the item's functional, and the word "smokescreen" is usually associated with firewall or security. It may be misleading.
Smokescreen is a codename, not the actual name of the program. Don't get your undies all in a bunch quite yet.
Jerbau, I would love to answer all your questions, but it is 3 A.M. here, and I really need sleep. Either myself or Stevie BM will get back to you tomorrow.
-godpunk
Originally posted by jerbau+Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AM-->QUOTE(jerbau @ Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AM)1. Will you include the concepts, ideas, suggestions of the forumers of AS while progressing on the project?To a certain extent, yes, we will. We will, however, take everything "with a pinch of salt", as the saying goes. In other words, we will be accepting suggestions, but if we deem them irrelevant (and have a valid reason for doing so), we won't use them.
On thing I've noticed over my time at Aqua-Soft is that, more often than not, people make suggestions about particular projects without thinking them through - people live, on the whole, in very insular worlds - they can't think outside of the features that they want. This is what we've got to do - we've got to formally specify this system in such a way that it can meet people's skinning and emulation needs now, and in the future.
Originally posted by jerbau@Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AM2. Shouldn't the forumers be entitled to view the progress?
Yes, and they will.
For the time being, we have the devblog. What you see so far is what's happened so far. We're gonna have a big meeting at some point soon, but it'll probably be some time this week, because I've got a major deadline tomorrow, so this weekend is kinda out for me.
When things start happening, you'll hear about them. Whether or not we make public certain things (Data flow diagrams, system flow diagrams, et al.) is yet to be seen, but I would tend towards the "Why not?" rather than the "Why?", if you take my meaning.
Originally posted by jerbau@Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AM3. What is the exact scope of the project?
The exact scope of the project? To design and implement a fully scriptable, user-definable, 3D accelerated user interface.
Having a large amount of experience in applications that build applications, I have seen first hand how easy it is to make this sort of system. As such, users will be able to basically design their own UI (thanks to the skinning engine). If you want a menubar that lives on the top of your screen, that's what you get. If you want a UI where windows have no borders, scrollbars, or titlebars until you hover over an appropriate area, that's what you get.
The problem that I saw was overriding Windows' current drawing methods, but, having looked at some open-source shell replacements, even that isn't that hard...2>
The major problem we're going to have is formalising this. Coding should be, with the team we've got, no problem
Originally posted by jerbau@Feb 29 2004, 04:40 AM4. Will the project credit AS.org?
To a certain extent, yes.
Stevie: Well answered and points taken... please don't forget to write a FAQ about the project. I'm sure this will benefit not only the people who's curious but would save you guys a lot of time in answering them in the long run.
We're all here to support you guys all the way. (Y)
Then the side note: The name Smokescreen is a very good choice IMO since as described this is a very general GUI 'wrapper'. Most applications nowadays don't have this flexibility as explained and I guess this will present a very radical change to the term skinning forever.
As stated... I would like to suggest that the themers out here think outside the box and not model the application from say Panther style. I was thinking maybe build it from the ground up and since the codename of this very radical application is Smokescreen... the general or default theme should aptly revolve around smoke or the substance that is related to such element. It's really interesting to see how smoke moves... I believe nothing has attempted to use this design element yet... due to the difficulty to harness this form or probably because technically it's impossible given the current technology (lack of processing power, DX9 limits).
As poofs... GUI elements could be instantiated by condensing particles and thus forming any desktop item imaginable... from cursors... wallpapers... icons.. the sky's the limit.
Smoke hasn't been used yet... and someday (soon) the themes will revolve around names like holy smoke, equivalent to the snow/milk themes or smoke signals... digital device? stench shinobi? ghastly flames... aerodynamics... clouds... vapors get the idea? Interesting right? Right.
Hmm... 'vaporize' as minimize? 'condense' as restore and 'envelope' as maximize? Come on guys... this will be so exciting! :woot:
Inspired? Just be inspired!
Posts Removed.
Don't offer warez. Don't disrespect staff.
I don't care about "I wasn't this, that or the other". You know who you are, and you know full well what you did.
------------------
Stevie BM
Ok people, we really need to have this meeting.
If you want to be involved (team members only, please), post times when you're free, with your time-zone (GMT, CET, PST, whatever), between now and Monday.
If you don't feel the need to be in on the meeting, please say so, so we can keep track of who is and isn't meant to be there.
Anytime between 7-10pm (GMT) weeknights
between 20:00 and 23:00 CET during weekdays. In weekends it depends on other things :6
This week please, because next week there is Champions League soccer on tele :soccer:
I'm there when you need me. My timezone is GMT+2, the above article shows correctly as posted 08:55 pm - I may be away next week but at least let's meet.
(Y)
I will be free:
Today: 6am-8am GMT
Tomorrow: 6am-8am GMT
Thursday: 6pm- 12am GMT, 3am- 7am GMT
Friday: 4am-7am GMT
Saturday and Sunday: Not avalible
-godpunk
Hi guys,
StevieMB invited (or 'ordered', as he put it) me to handle the graphics for this project, obviously I said yes :¬)
I'm around most nights 7-10pm (GMT)
Ross