Aqua-Soft ForumsOriginally posted by ClockWise+May 16 2003, 05:26 PM-->QUOTE(ClockWise @ May 16 2003, 05:26 PM)
I Just Finished Seeing Matrix Reloaded
The movie itself was awesome, I loved it. Well worth my time and money! Unfortunately, we seem to have the critics of my local newspapers that think differently.... personally, f*** THEM! I hate how the main complaint is the storyline, when you consider that fact that the movie left a lot of questions unanswered. WHY did it do this? DUH! At the very end of Reloaded, it says in big matrix letters, "TO BE CONCLUDED!" You can judge this movie for not putting the story along, but the truth is this movie really didnt (and in my opinion wasent ment to) tell a lot of it. I believe that is the job of "Revolution". O well though, everyone is entitled to opinion... of course, that doesnt mean I have to like your opinion 
.
I also saw it wensday night...
I did enjoy it... but it wasn't as good as the first one.
1) they could have cut the Xion party/neo-trinity love scene down to 1/3 of what it was.
2) Morpheous's speech @ Xion was corny, he lost all his "coolness" and his non emotional demenor, that is his character.
3) The Architechs speech was way to long, very long winded, it also could have been really trimmed down, and still get the point across.
4) Agent Smith the Virus (not a rogue program, he infects and duplicates), ok, its cool to have him back, but its a plot line that really didn't need to be developed, unless they would have done more, Or they do more with it in the 3rd movie.
5)I agree if Neo can control the matrix, why can't he adapt to what else other do in the matrix... why would he need to fly, he should be able to just teleport from place to place much like agents (although they need a vessel to take over). Or even adapt to what the "Twins" were doing. Along with having to do kung fu, he should just be able to zap agents like he did to Smith in the first one. To me it looks like he hasn't truely freed his mine from thinking 2 dimensionally... hmmm reason he fell into a...
(oops to much info) at the end of the movie, cause he still can't accept it.
6) Speaking of Flying... now when I saw this at the end of the Matrix... I was like LAME!... and for him to keep doing it in Matrix: reloaded was going to be lame...
But actually the way it was done was damn good, impressed me, specially in the ones scene where he flys up and does this twisting motion and pauses to look over the city... that was done really well... hmm what they could do in a new Superman movie now... impressive.
7) One thing... its a Box with in a Box... or a matrix within the matrix, a true alice in wonderland.
Thats where you're wrong fissyb,
Neo cannot 'create' a cage in the matrix cause its forming another "program" out of his own brain.
Now people can say, "so how can he stop bullets with his own power of mind", well thats simple: its just dealing with an exisitng program.
@clockwise - I'm not saying many movies follow the affirmative action 'idea', but it kinda makes me tired of heaing these complaints of yours, specially for this particular awesome movie. There are enough movies you can say these things however obviously its not going to end in your case.
Tank, Dowser, Oracle, Link, 50% the counsellors, nioby, 70% of the ship captains, and MORPHEUS are black or 'unwashed darkies' (quoting you). :smiliemaker:
on the other hand agents from all kinds, Agent smith, the creator of the matrix, and these two albino twins who are pure evil, are white. :evil:
There is someone there that is also white and that wants to do something bad, but if i say something, i'll ruin the movie. I also cant belive im talking about this..
please, disregard these vague things and enjoy the movie -
if you dont like it, then at least dont find excuses to slide into a different topic that is clearly in your mind.
-----------
EDIT: what mageguru wrote is an example of well written downfalls for the movie (which i personally disagree and agree with).
EDIT2: mageguru, the only thing i didnt like was SOME of the dialogs were corny. I must admit it. But it wasnt swallen in this whole overwhelming effects.
=======SPOILER========
if you dont like it, then at least dont find excuses to slide into a different topic that is clearly in your mind.
I got the same feeling as Clockwise over this, but i liked the film anyway, its not just in his mind.
I can see from a purely scientific view, Neo may not be able to construct the cage, but if he can alter other programs at will, shouldn't he just hold the agents with the power of his mind, Darth Vader style. After all thats all hes doing when he kicks them really, as the one, he isn't supposed to see a difference.
edit: because the agents and anyone else in the matrix are just programs after all.
The agents don't teleport as such, they take over another body. Thats different to Neo moving his avatar at infinite speed. Being able to do that would break causality, and would bring down the matrix in a ball of flaming logic. 
The Zion speech was most definitely corny - Morpheous shouldn't have been the one doing that.
They do seem to have written the film around pleasing diehard fans rather than trying to make the film good - the reappearance of agent smith - he seems to have an integral part in the next one too...
Finally I think the real world HAS to be a matrix too. Neo sees the future when he has to open the door - he is told this in his dreams by the architect to facilitate his role as the one. The second matrix (with Zion in it) is a failsafe so that those who won't accept the original (1% the architect tells us) can still be used by the machines. It is now a perfect system for the computers - except that this time the one falls in love.
hmm on second thoughts - the sentinals destroy a ship which forces trinity to enter the matrix and face death - an accident on the machines' part, or just how far does the rabbit hole go?
=======SPOILER======
Originally posted by fissyb@May 16 2003, 03:06 PM=======SPOILER========
I got the same feeling as Clockwise over this, but i liked the film anyway, its not just in his mind.
I can see from a purely scientific view, Neo may not be able to construct the cage, but if he can alter other programs at will, shouldn't he just hold the agents with the power of his mind, Darth Vader style. After all thats all hes doing when he kicks them really, as the one, he isn't supposed to see a difference.
edit: because the agents and anyone else in the matrix are just programs after all.
The agents don't teleport as such, they take over another body. Thats different to Neo moving his avatar at infinite speed. Being able to do that would break causality, and would bring down the matrix in a ball of flaming logic.
The Zion speech was most definitely corny - Morpheous shouldn't have been the one doing that.
They do seem to have written the film around pleasing diehard fans rather than trying to make the film good - the reappearance of agent smith - he seems to have an integral part in the next one too...
Finally I think the real world HAS to be a matrix too. Neo sees the future when he has to open the door - he is told this in his dreams by the architect to facilitate his role as the one. The second matrix (with Zion in it) is a failsafe so that those who won't accept the original (1% the architect tells us) can still be used by the machines. It is now a perfect system for the computers - except that this time the one falls in love.
hmm on second thoughts - the sentinals destroy a ship which forces trinity to enter the matrix and face death - an accident on the machines' part, or just how far does the rabbit hole go?
=======SPOILER======
heheh -
true.
Neo could blow agents up by getting inside them like the first one.
!!=========spoiler==========!!
but i think that with 200 agents around him, AGENTS, not just people, he needs to focus a lot. So why not kick 200 butts and entertain the whole audience for freaking 15 minutes? 15 minutes.. god thats like the longest fighting scene ever..
========end of spoiler=======
Well - I enjoyed it this movie a lot. I actually see you're point fissyb
..They do seem to have written the film around pleasing diehard fans rather than trying to make the film good -
well...ok that can be true, thats one way to describe it - however I just see the opposite of it.
:matrix:
You guys need to stop already its just a damn movie geez. Like it or dont like it. Say you dont or say you do end of story its not a friggin' debate. BTW Goku is right no matter how you look at it, this is a very good movie.
:who's your daddy:
Originally posted by fissyb@May 17 2003, 11:14 AMi like movies and i like philosophy/metaphysics.
what can i say..
my thoughts exactly (Y)
well i havent seen it yet but from what ive seen in the trailer, this is my favorite quote :
Originally posted by MorpheousWhat if the prophecy is true? What if tomorrow the war could be over? Isn't that worth fighting for? Isn't that worth dying for?
i have nooooooo idea why i love that quote.....
i hope you haven't read too much of these threads...
save it for when you see the film
and yeah, its an awesome quote 
Even if that isn't the case, it is still a crap movie. Did you listen to the words they said? They didn't make any sense. The film could have been silent save for sound effects and it would have been just as good as it was.
I loved the movie simply amazing... also.. you notice those copies of Agen smith... he isnt really an agent program .. he is a new design.. new coding.. because as you can see.. normal agents run from him.. because he wants to turn all of them into him.. and he is "unplugged" in a way since he can take over the human brain... he isnt classified as a normal agent program anymore... hehehe
i loved the fights.. the dialog.. the storyline everything.. its great as i expetced it tobe!!!
and how could you not understand what they were talking about?.. i understood everysingle word clockwise... huh..... you think thats air your breathing?
my opinion!
-bolero
overall , goodmovie Visually Stunning but , it seems they became like the all the newest movies ,depending so much on the special effects more than the actual story line, in the first one it had both an awesome story line and special effects, WAS THAT AN ORGY ON RELOADED?LOL for a moment I thought I was in the wrong movie :6
LoL i thought that too... and i just realised trinity was either using unix or linux to do that hacking!! lol
-bolero
I just saw it last night. I liked it, bt I did not love it.
I too, wish they had focused more on the story line instead of the special effects. Perhaps they will redeem themselves in part 3.
Grusic
Even if that isn't the case, it is still a crap movie. Did you listen to the words they said? They didn't make any sense. The film could have been silent save for sound effects and it would have been just as good as it was.
You've got a point i think.
Some of the dialogue was important though. Like with Architect (although the choice bit was laid on a bit thick, do they think we can't think?). the bit with the oracle needs to be heard from what i remember. It doesn't mean much at the time, you have to look back at it. There are lots of small things people say which you don't listen to in the film but realise later. The guy holding the key maker says "i have outlasted your predecessors and i will out last you" (or something similar.)
The agents also refer to Neo as the anomaly if you listen carefully.
Smith also tells us that he has now rejected the system of control, he was changed my the way the one chose to destroy him this time around. and yet the machines don't kill smith?
yet another conspiracy/level of control?
---------spoiler----------
There were, for me, some very interesting questions raised by this movie.
1.) Is Zion also part of the Matrix? The reason I asked is because the Architect seems to state this in his chat with Neo. He states that %1 of human still reject the current Matrix. Perhaps Zion is a secondary Matrix especially designed for those strong minded individuals.
2.) If Zion is not part of the Matrix, has the Oracle some how enhanced Neo's powers, to the point where can he now use them in the physical world? As evidenced by his emitting an EM pulse to the Sentinels near the films end. Perhaps this happened when she offered him the red candy.
Also former Agent. now rogue Smith is seemingly able to inject his consciousness into a living and *free* human being. So either Zion is part of or is a secondary Matrix or Smith has indeed become very powerful.
3.) Has the Oracle, as Mother of the Matrix, had second thoughts about the enslavement of the human race? As evidenced by her statement that "We both, machine and man, need each other" and she did seemingly *help* Neo.
-------------spoiler--------------
Any thoughts on these ideas?
Grusic
Honestly,
I dont think this story could have been more complecated than it is.
the fact the story went slow in the opening doesnt mean anything anything about the whole 1,2,3 movies.
I seriously dont see how people cant see the story in the movie. there are so many assumptions you can make based on the tons of things happening in the story. jesus my english isnt fluent and I couldnt be happier ever than after walking out after then movie ended
Anyone that needs answers, contact me, perhaps knownig the story would help you understand that there wasnt any need to have speeches and "alot" of dialogs because of the ammount of assumptions hiding behind everything they say and many things that reveal stuff for the first movie.
-- btw, grusic
These are questions we will probably find out in the next movie. Thats the whole charm about it,.. its something we dont really know...
i also added some 'spoiler' tags so people who didnt see the movie wont read it.
---------spoiler-----------
i dont believe Zion is another matrix.. if you lsiten to the architech he explains that They have destroyed Zion about 5 times.. and that the matrix is actually alot older then the humans think... the architech gave neo the option of 23 new humans to start up zion again once the mahcines destroy it.. its like an endless loop.. but neo didnt choose that door.. so now its different...
-------spoiler---------------
-bolero
Originally posted by bolero@May 17 2003, 02:12 PMi dont believe Zion is another matrix.. if you lsiten to the architech he explains that They have destroyed Zion about 5 times.. and that the matrix is actually alot older then the humans think... the architech gave neo the option of 23 new humans to start up zion again once the mahcines destroy it.. its like an endless loop.. but neo didnt choose that door.. so now its different...
-bolero
-----------spoiler-----------
well grusic may be right bo,
cause if you saw, neo was able to block the sentitnals with his 'special powers' in the physical world..
Now in the beginign in was shocked-excited, thinking "omg since he is such a mind control, he can actually utilize it in REAL LIFE - woot!"
but now i start thinking that this real world is also another matrix.
--------spoiler------------
hmm yea.. very interesting... but then you can also think of it this way .. the way looking at it of not being another matrix.. If that Smith character could take over a free mind and be free in the world.. then maybe the same type of idea can work with neo....his mind and body everything is changed that he can do some things in the real world.. if you get what i mean hard to kinda explain. heh
-bolero
Originally posted by Grusic@May 17 2003, 11:05 PM---------spoiler----------
There were, for me, some very interesting questions raised by this movie.
1.) Is Zion also part of the Matrix? The reason I asked is because the Architect seems to state this in his chat with Neo. He states that %1 of human still reject the current Matrix. Perhaps Zion is a secondary Matrix especially designed for those strong minded individuals.
2.) If Zion is not part of the Matrix, has the Oracle some how enhanced Neo's powers, to the point where can he now use them in the physical world? As evidenced by his emitting an EM pulse to the Sentinels near the films end. Perhaps this happened when she offered him the red candy.
Also former Agent. now rogue Smith is seemingly able to inject his consciousness into a living and *free* human being. So either Zion is part of or is a secondary Matrix or Smith has indeed become very powerful.
3.) Has the Oracle, as Mother of the Matrix, had second thoughts about the enslavement of the human race? As evidenced by her statement that "We both, machine and man, need each other" and she did seemingly *help* Neo.
-------------spoiler--------------
Any thoughts on these ideas?
Grusic
=======MORE SPOILER========
well going on the assumption that Neo is just a Human, Zion must also be part of a matrix designed as a safeguard for the strong willed as you put it.
This explains Neo's powers in the real world and possibly his coma as he refuses to accept the truth that everything is a lie. He didn't need to try and accept it the first time because the matrix did it for him, he was forced to accept as part of his role as the one.
The problem is, despite this being the only satisfying answer i can see at the moment, I don't think it will be the one the writers have chosen. Thats because I think a lot of people don't like the box within a box idea, and it ultimately leads to Neo and Trinity's love being a creation of the matrix.
I don't know what the writers will choose instead, but I get the feeling it will be as rubbish as the humans are a battery idea.... doesn't anyone there know any science!!!
Bolero: The Architect's speech could be part of the system of control too, does he really have a choice between those 2 doors - we know doesn't because of love - love was predicted by the oracle - the oracle is part of the system of control....
I think you probably are right though Bolero, as far as the actual story goes. I doubt that the writers want to make it as complicated as i have. Probably with the architect, what you see is what you get. So did Neo,Trinity choose to fall in love, and how does Neo have powers in the real world. no-one knows...
Goku, you know the whole story??
========SPOILER==========
Originally posted by bolero@May 17 2003, 02:17 PMhmm yea.. very interesting... but then you can also think of it this way .. the way looking at it of not being another matrix.. If that Smith character could take over a free mind and be free in the world.. then maybe the same type of idea can work with neo....his mind and body everything is changed that he can do some things in the real world.. if you get what i mean hard to kinda explain. heh
-bolero
----spoiler--------
I understand you bo,
I truly dont know if the real world is another matrix, or neo has more uri geler powers now.
both can be true.
My first instinct was that neo has powers, but we cant know.
also bolero, you cant officialy determin it now, cause we havent seen the third movie yet.
EDIT: Neo even said: "something has changed, i can feel them (sentitnals) -- thats very propable the real world is another matrix. - again, i woudlnt be surprised if neo is actually having powers cause of his mind controling in the matrix already.
------spoiler---------
Bolero: unless the film is going to get properly religious instead of just hinting at it, Neo will have to obey nature in the same way as you and i do. Magically stopping those sentinals didn't seem to be in keeping with the "real world"