Aqua-Soft Forums2 buttons and scroll wheel for me...can't use anything less than that or else it just feels weird
Do You Like The One Button Mouse?
I've never had that much experience with the Apple Mouse. The design is utterly gorgeous, nobody can deny that. I currently use a Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical on my PC, but have bought an Apple Pro Mouse (cheaply, may I note :canadian:) on Ebay to try out when my iBook arrives later in the week. I imagine the one button thing won't be much of a problem to me, but that I will miss the wheel. If I do, then I'll just sell it on Ebay - I'd probably make a profit on it actually, so no complaints from me.
Btw Taha - a friend of mine has that small Logitech mouse, and it's a very impressive mouse indeed. It's got the best wheel and clicky action I've ever used on a mouse - just wish I could get it a bit cheaper over here in France. :nuts:
Originally posted by Eric Rabesandratana@Jul 6 2003, 06:58 AM
Btw Taha - a friend of mine has that small Logitech mouse, and it's a very impressive mouse indeed. It's got the best wheel and clicky action I've ever used on a mouse - just wish I could get it a bit cheaper over here in France. :nuts:
yeah, i got it for $92 CDN, which is not cheap 
Originally posted by deadzombie@Jul 6 2003, 12:29 AMSo what we're saying here that Mac users can handle a single button, but two buttons requires so much experience that its confusing?!?
B*llsh*t!
Try this: Apple realized their mistake and released the pro mouse, and keep the one button around in order to keep the Pro Mouse's value as high as it is.
No no no no. You completely missed what my point was. I said that a two button mouse can be VERY confusing for new users at the computer. That goes for everyone, if you have never touched a computer before. For us a two button mouse is no problem, we live and breathe computers.
Try reading my posts more thoroughly. 
By the way, that makes no sense, your last statement. If Apple realized their mistake of one button, why did they release yet another one button mouse, and stick to their belief. The Pro Mouse is just a REALLY NICE mouse, thats why its value is so high.
Ack, the Pro mouse is average. Try Logitech for a quality mouse. The MX line will rock your world. Precise, fast and comfortable. Its a gamer mouse in a box.
I did read your post, and two buttons is confusing to morons. First time users? Only if they've got an IQ in the double digits. Please, lets be real; I dont know who your friends and family are, but if mine couldnt understand 3 buttons + scroll after a quick 30 second overview I'd probably disown them and call Shady Hills Mental Health Institute.
I guess we just hold different standards of what we expect from people. The one button mouse is limited and just plain insulting.
I simply cannot adjust to anything less than 5 buttons now that I purchased my Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0.......although I've been eyeing that 8-button Logitech MX500...
LOL, I have a Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical Explorer with just the good ol' 2 buttons and a scroll wheel. I defiently would go insane without right-click ability, i use it AT LEAST 100 times a day if im on the comp! AHHH, the horror of even trying to not use a 2 button mouse kills me!
Side-Story: Wanna hear something kind of funny? I have this wood deskstation and since my mouse is optical I just have it sit right on top of the wood because it works better on that than a mouse pad. Well, Ive had it in the same spot on my workstation for so long, this very tiny black holes are ALL OVER the place from the lazer burning the wood slowly over time LOL! Im wonding how long I have to wait before a hole is buned all the way through the 2in. of wood that it sits atop! Anyone else expirence this?
My mousepad cought on fire one time from my optical mouse. 
Originally posted by deadzombie@Jul 6 2003, 03:35 PMAck, the Pro mouse is average. Try Logitech for a quality mouse. The MX line will rock your world. Precise, fast and comfortable. Its a gamer mouse in a box.
I did read your post, and two buttons is confusing to morons. First time users? Only if they've got an IQ in the double digits. Please, lets be real; I dont know who your friends and family are, but if mine couldnt understand 3 buttons + scroll after a quick 30 second overview I'd probably disown them and call Shady Hills Mental Health Institute.
I guess we just hold different standards of what we expect from people. The one button mouse is limited and just plain insulting.
I dont expect a person whos never used a computer before to grasp the 2 mouse button and scroll wheel deal right away, let alone what a point and click interface is. The one button mouse give the new a friendly easy feeling.
I dont considor it limiting at all. It is much smarter if you ask me. Its ingenious. Your just giving yourself more things to worry about than you have to. Ok maybe for you, you mastered it. Good for you. To be honest with you so have I, but I wont feel insulted using a one button mouse in the slightest. If someone feels insulted using a one button mouse, I'm sorry but they must be very insecure with themselves. The object of the game is simplicity, not complexity. I dont feel MACHO dude just because I have 10 more buttons than you to press. I feel smarter and more intelligent than you, because I have less to worry about.
P.S. I am not directing this post at anyone in particular so do not be offended and feel like you have been attacked in away. When I use the pronoun "you", I mean you in general, meaning anyone.
When you have less mouse buttons you have to use more keyboard+mouse combos so you don't reduce complexity.
If the os is fluent and designed well enough, you dont need keyboard strokes and commands. Apple just has them as extras.
Originally posted by Jmitch@Jul 7 2003, 04:51 PMIf the os is fluent and designed well enough, you dont need keyboard strokes and commands. Apple just has them as extras.
well, this much I have to agree with.
If someone never wants to use the right, click - all the functions are stored in the menu-bar anyway.
But I DO find 2-button mice to be more efficient and useful.
Originally posted by Jmitch+Jul 7 2003, 08:07 PM-->QUOTE(Jmitch @ Jul 7 2003, 08:07 PM)
Before I got Win XP last year, the vast majority of my computer experience had been on Macs and other Apple machines. I was used to one-button mice because I'd never used anything else. I loved how beautiful the clear/white iMac optical mice were when my high school got them...
Once I got my Windows machine about a year ago, though, it came with a 2-button + scroll wheel optical mouse, and yeah, I didn't know what to do with those buttons at first. The only thing I knew about making Windows work was ctrl-alt-delete... I figured it out pretty quickly, though, and I've been hooked ever since. My proficiency with one-button mice has gone way down since then--esp. considering that I never really worked with OS X or even saw it before last summer, so I'm not completely familiar with everything you can do with the mouse in that version of the Mac OS.
Personally, these days I find it difficult to work without a scroll wheel and right click - clicking-and-dragging or clicking-and-holding seem so slow, esp. when I'm working on Mac machines with the bare minimum of memory (this being an educational institution) which freeze every other time I try to drag a scroll bar...
I contend, though, having used both extensively, that either style of mouse is fairly easy to get used to if you use it on a regular basis.
EDIT:
Low expectations are the leading cause of a degeneration in society and the root cause of why many young people today can't even read or speak properly. We need standards. At the very least I would maintain the standard of 2 buttons plus scroll, which a user should be able to pick up immediatly. Any less and people shouldn't even be allowed to interface with a computer. Perhaps they could learn how to read a book instead.
Well said, deadzombie, well said...
Originally posted by deadzombie+Jul 7 2003, 05:53 PM-->QUOTE(deadzombie @ Jul 7 2003, 05:53 PM)Originally posted by Jmitch@Jul 7 2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Jmitch@Jul 7 2003, 08:51 PMIf the os is fluent and designed well enough, you dont need keyboard strokes and commands. Apple just has them as extras.
Except part of the reason why people like some OS' better than others is because they include more options like that. They call that being powerfull, and if your input device can give you more instant access to those things then it is liked. Like instead of pressing the mouse + 2+ keys you just use 1 button. And this is not a hypothetical situation or becuase the desktop is not well designed (I'm thinking of E on xfree).
Heck you could use a computer without a mouse and use keyboard navigation but would you want to? You could use hotkeys to launch all your applications instead of going through menus and docks and things like that. Personal preference I guess.
However, I think more than 2 buttons and a scroll wheel is overkill. I have an optical intellimouse and I never use the 2 extra side buttons. In fact, in the beginnin they where a nuisance.
Anyway in the end I think just because Apple does it that doesn't make it the best way to do it. They are not infallible. That's why they change things in time.
Originally posted by smoke@Jul 7 2003, 06:06 PMExcept part of the reason why people like some OS' better than others is because they include more options like that. They call that being powerfull, and if your input device can give you more instant access to those things then it is liked. Like instead of pressing the mouse + 2+ keys you just use 1 button. And this is not a hypothetical situation or becuase the desktop is not well designed (I'm thinking of E on xfree).
Heck you could use a computer without a mouse and use keyboard navigation but would you want to? You could use hotkeys to launch all your applications instead of going through menus and docks and things like that. Personal preference I guess.
However, I think more than 2 buttons and a scroll wheel is overkill. I have an optical intellimouse and I never use the 2 extra side buttons. In fact, in the beginnin they where a nuisance.
Anyway in the end I think just because Apple does it that doesn't make it the best way to do it. They are not infallible. That's why they change things in time.
I dont think they are infallible, I just happened to agree with them in this instance. Actually, I agree with a lot of things Apple does. But, if they suddenly add a button to their mouses, that will be one thing I dont like that Apple does.
Low expectations are the leading cause of a degeneration in society and the root cause of why many young people today can't even read or speak properly. We need standards. At the very least I would maintain the standard of 2 buttons plus scroll, which a user should be able to pick up immediatly. Any less and people shouldn't even be allowed to interface with a computer. Perhaps they could learn how to read a book instead.
I Agree with DZ for once. People not knowing ANYTHING about computers is what is causing problems with the industry. People want computers to be toasters,but they CAN'T. Computers ARE extremely complex, and they always will be because of the multitude of tasks they do. Making them dead simple so even illiterates can use them removes POWER, STABILITY, SECURITY, and FREEDOM from computers. I guess if you're willing to sacrafice those things, its ok.
:order:
Originally posted by Jmitch@Jul 8 2003, 12:10 AMI dont think they are infallible, I just happened to agree with them in this instance. Actually, I agree with a lot of things Apple does. But, if they suddenly add a button to their mouses, that will be one thing I dont like that Apple does.
At least you'd stick to your guns on this one, which I commend you for.
A lot of the people over at Spymac have almost evangelically changed their tune over the G5 having only one optical drive compared to the G4's two. The arguments have suddenly come that you only need one drive, and two drives are just stupid - a ludicrous argument. Personally I find the mouse button issue the same.
It's quite easy to make do with one (indeed, when my iBook comes I'll be doing so) but let's face it, two is nicer and so often easier. As for beginners picking up a Mac mouse easier, which is an easier thing to teach?:
i) "Move the cursor to the arrows towards the lower right corner of this Safari window. No, that's the Finder. Safari, the metal one. Yes that's it. Now click the up and down arrows to move further down the page."
ii) "Roll that wheel on the mouse."
The wheel is the best mouse innovation in the last ten years. Optical technology is close behind, but the wheel really is a top notch innovation.
Originally posted by contrasutra@Jul 7 2003, 06:15 PMComputers ARE extremely complex, and they always will be because of the multitude of tasks they do.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, computers are extremely complex machines. But, they dont have to be complex to use. If you design them intuitively, and smart, you can design them to be easy for the user to use, without learning alot first. I believe Apple has acheived this.