Aqua-Soft Forums

The current attitude of winnie "porters"

I agree with duyvan.....if you wanna mod a style, or port it yourself, and use it just for yourself, that's fine. But give credit for the original idea to the authors, and DON'T distribute it without permission. I personally don't see anything wrong with posting a SS of an "unauthorized port" as long as you say that in your post, and you don't share that port with others. My two cents worth...........

But the problem is... when you put so much work into a theme (speaking in terms of windows themes now) It is hard not to want to share it. So when someone pms you asking for a theme it is hard not to send it. Trust me I know from my experience theming. Luckily I didnt have to worry about taht because I always had permission first.

So what starts out as an "unreleasable theme" ends up being downloaded by lots of people. Thats why unathorized ports should not be screenshotted.

#310477

@bz: Well, in that case, I guess you are right. If it takes banning SS of unauthorized rips, then it should be done.

#310478

I agree with vince, I dont see a really big problem with people posting sreenshots of a rip or port as long as it has proper credit given to the origional author and is not distributed. I know that when I am given an unreleased theme, it never leaves my computer. I usually dont even answer Private Messages partaining to the theme. And in some cases I am told not to post SS, which I also abide by.

But for people who do rip themes from screenshots, why bother? It looks horrible, im sure it offends the author, and your pretty much wasting your time, why not wait for the theme to be released so you can get the resources and make it worth your time?

I also have to agree with Bz, it is kind of a kick in the face to the authors...

#310481

bz, i agree with you 100% and I wish people would respect the wishes of the original authors (probably for more selfish reasons than anything else) And just for the record, I never said everyone was innocent, including myself I just think it's absurd to start banning people over a screenshot nothing more. I don't want to argue ripping. That is not the issue I was having, I believe credit should be give to YOU skinners that make our desk beautiful.

ppoppe, I also agree. :)

#310483

I do not share the same opinion here.

I believe "windows themers" are fine by "porting" unreleased themes.

But they might show some creativity on parts unfinished and prove design skills other than copy-paste. I other words, finish those unreleased themes with improved theme elements.

#310485

It's beyond me why anyone would want to "port" an unfinished theme, where all you're working off of is a screenshot. Why bother? :slant:

However, it's fortunate this isn't life-and-death--let's just keep that in mind here ;).

-NC

#310490

Thats why unathorized ports should not be screenshotted.

i disagree. i can understand the part about ripping themes and unfinished works, but completely banning unauthorized ports? that would be quite alot of posts. there would be no niqu, etc.

#310491

so the best solution IMO would be to allow screenshots of themes such as COTL's or esXXi (as there will be no official ports) and to ban anyone posting other themes that may be released for windows :)

#310497

I do not share the same opinion here.

I believe "windows themers" are fine by "porting" unreleased themes.

But they might show some creativity on parts unfinished and prove design skills other than copy-paste. I other words, finish those unreleased themes with improved theme elements.

Or they could show some creativity and create their own theme. >_< So you are saying that windows themers should take my work... finish it with their own elements... then offer it up for download? :S Cuase thats what ends up happening.

@jhorner... I actually tend to agree with you there but the porter should at least wait until the theme is finished...

But the point is...Perhaps certain themes werent ported because of the low quality of all the rips. Permission will never be granted from certain themers because they just get fed up with all the BS that comes with it. So not allowing unahtorized works would probably lead to more ports in the end. I know that the majority of the themers now (me, susumu, max rudberg etc..) will infact allow windows ports and even help you by providing valuable resources to create an accurate port. So there really is no reason to post a theme that you dont have permission to port. Ask permission first... then start your own preview thread if you want to show it off.

#310498

I honestly agree with what Bz says 100 % ... I wish the Windows theming community would have more patience and wait for official ports.

It's these rippers who give us such a bad name and alienate more and more artists who deny permission for their work to be ported as a result :(

#310512

I agree with justice.

If someone doesn't allow a port: and people make a port and release it...they don't think it is a big deal. In reality...it is against copyright.

Some people need to grow up and earn some respect for artists.

#310514

If someone ports a theme for person use, and posts his theme in the desktop thread that’s fine... As long as they are not distributing the theme ON THIS SITE it's none of our concern what they do with that persons theme. Anyone can rip anyone from a simple screen shot, if you see someone ripping your work don't always take it the wrong way... if they are distributing it and making moola on your work that’s one thing, but just a screenshot? Take that as a compliment that they love your work. Also people need to stop complaining when people post a screenshot in the desktop thread of unreleased stuff... get a life stop worrying about others desktops. Unless, like stated above, they are distributing it, ignore it. It’s their desktop let them do what they want with it. But do not make new threads to show off an unreleased theme you ported yourself for self use, that will get closed and you will probaly get banned or warned, depends on the mod.

#310521

I agree with you completely Timan :)

#310596

I think this rather a serious issue and it's about time Bz brought this UP... not only this is frustruating to Original Creator but also to users who seek Quality work. I have happened to once suffer such mediocre port of someone's beautiful work and almost lost interest in the original theme. Fortunately the official port was released soon by author.

But consider this scenario when someone like me who downloads bad work and on that account looses interest in original work. It's not only loss and insult of genuine artist but also user.

Unfortunately, there are many customization sites available for such "rippers" to show off their work, the situation is rather difficult to control them. No matter how many restrictions being put and amount of such RIPs are taken down everyday, RIP control is almost same as Birth Control..... it doesn't work, and it's really sad !

#310598

most windows ports, authorized or not, are of very low quality. no offence to those making them.

#310599

most windows ports, authorized or not, are of very low quality. no offence to those making them.

I agree completely with you, i have a few "Samui" VS(talking about those released without permission and for personal use), and i dont like anyone of them.

Most of them are heavly incomplete, because the lack of resources.

I dont agree with the rips of any kind,, and i think Bz its the most affected themer with those actions, if i remember, yangbao used to have his web site with ripped stuff , so its no surprise that he release the themes, because he thinks stuff is for share with ppl , i agree with his idea but not with his actions.

A lot of ppl use stuff for personal use, that rip from SS and such, but even for personal use its still a rip , i dont agree much with those "SS" that sometimes appear on the Desktop Threat , and i speak for my self, because a few days i posted one, and we dont respect much that, because i think desktop threat become more a Vanity Fair for that kind of things.

Well just my opinion, and sorry for my bad english.

Bye

#310609

I'm returning temporarily to these forums to share my opinion on this matter, which I think should have been discussed and debated long ago. In fact, one of the reasons why I left this place has to do with the subject matter (I won't talk about the other reasons - read this if you really want to know).

I think that one shouldn't start porting themes that are still being designed and created unless they have offical permission and the original resources from the author. Wait for the complete theme to be released, and then start porting, using original resources or high-quality screenshots. Make sure your port is complete and has a reasonable quality; it's a form of respect for the original creator. My own personal port of Niqu (which I haven't shown anywhere yet) was made with quality in mind. I used only .PNG screenshot images whenever possible, and even if I have to resort to .JPEG images, I meticulously clean up the images until they have a quality that is good enough for a theme. I have even requested some of the original Niqu resources to aid in my port. The result: a near-complete theme (very few elements are missing though) with the correct images in respectable quality. Even then, I don't stop; I keep improving and tweaking everything to make sure it's as perfect as possible.

People shouldn't be showing off half-complete poor-quality ports of themes anywhere, whether it's before or after it's completion. Such is a disrespect to the original creator of the theme, who could had put in a lot of effort in the theme. Trust me, it's not easy to create an original theme (which I have tried but failed before). You got to have a lot of patience and creativity, and have rich experince in imaging software such as Photoshop or The GIMP. Poor-quality themes which are ported and then "floated around" on the customisation community (especially ports of themes which are still being made) are just complete mockery of the effort, hard work, beauty, and even meaning behind the theme put in by the creators. Most people are after a theme because of it's beauty; why then do they make a poor quality half-complete port, and why do people still download and settle for them? I find people who use poor-quality theme ports extremely ridiculous; are they really after the beauty of the theme, or do they just have a "me too", "I want", or "I have, you don't; nah nah nah" attitude?

If you really like a theme that much, have the patience to wait for it to be completed, and then ask for permission from the author. If he or she agrees, start porting, keeping in mind the quality and hard work put in by the original author. Some might even entrust you with the original resources to ensure that your port is complete. Even if you are denied permission but still wishes to make a port for personal use, ask for the original resources from someone who has access to them (not necessary the original creator) or look for high-quality screenshots of the complete theme, not the incomplete versions. Also, don't show screenshots of half-complete poor-quality ports or pass them around; even if you are going to pass around personal ports, make sure they are of a reasonable quality and acurateness, and never offer them for public download. I still remember getting a port of eXec and getting apalled by the poor-quality of the port; I personally took some time to tweak everything, using higher-quality screenshots of the original theme as an aid, and improving it's acurateness. Even then, I'm still not happy, and I'm considering abandoning that port and creating a new one from scratch.

I think I now know why Rick Patrick and the people at COTL GUI Studios (along with some others) don't allow ports of their themes (such as Niqu and eXec); they were apalled by the screenshots of poor-quality ports of their themes, many of which has not even been released by themselves yet. They fear that if they authorise even a particular port of their theme after it has been released, it might be seen as the green light for all other ports of the same theme as well, and open up the floodgates for poor-quality ports of their themes, something I'm sure they don't want to see. In fact, I think what Rick once said in the Niqu preview thread ("...I'm also highly displeased with how Windows looks when themed anyway. It's ugly. It's painful to watch someone (no matter how talented) cut up your work...") was actually referring to the poor-quality ports of Niqu (which was already being "floated arounded" at that time), as well as a few others, and not universally to all Windows themes, port or original.

That's all I have to say. Thank you, and have a nice day. I will never return again unless some topic as interesting as this to me pops up again.

#310836

Its funny how the people they say they quit... still lurk the sites alot.

#310912

Its funny how the people they say they quit... still lurk the sites alot.

shaddap :P

#310926

Its funny how the people they say they quit... still lurk the sites alot.

maybe they mean... quit, as in they quit posting... a lot. :P

// Lou

#310930

yeah, timan, that's my experience too, from a bunch of other communities. i've always considered people who post those worked-up "i'm leaving this sh!++y place" threads immature.

#310971

i understand what your saying bz, i wont deny it, i have unreleased ****ty ports of themes, i have yet to even use them, some like Black N Blue, Most people including people who do these ports and give them out dont really care about what you say or others like you say, because most have yet to even create/port an actual released theme. theres nothing that you can do, and if people start banning them then me you and the community will have even more problems. you'd have to ban half the community to stop it most likely, which would destroy the community.

most themes i have are able to be used in ss, but there so crappy, most have startmenus from like milk/aqua etc from where they used them as a base for the port, the buttons etc arent complete, they just do some of the windows, the startbar and the taskbarbuttons to make them look nice for ss, but when you do get your hands on the theme, and get a close look at it, you see just how ****ty it really is. i dont consider it wrong to port themes even when its not even released, because most artist usually allow there themes to be ported, like your new theme, you have given permission for it to be ported, but its not released, and the port hasnt even started because something else is being worked on, Powder.. cough, and susumus dragon was ported before it was even complete.

I myself have never really even bothered to port a theme like black N blue, even though he shows ss of alot of the things, its just not enough to do a good Port, it doesnt kinda annoy me to see ports of themes when the author has only showed you a ss. like a full blown ss.

other than that its fine to port themes, we let the mac users port our themes, most by digitaljames :P just as long as there completee

#311865

Let me say this; if I were a Mac GUI themer, and I released my themes just like Rick Patrick and the other themers do, I probably wouldn't care what the end users do with my themes. The idea of making a theme is to make users happy. It's not a theme war; people need to stop being so damn picky about what happens to their publicly released works. If someone takes your work and puts it in a "transformation pack", be happy! You just got another method of spreading your theme or software. It's not like the person gave it out saying "I MADE THIS"... credit needs to be where credit is due, yes. But seriously... it's my opinion that Rick Patrick, and the other themers that won't let their themes be ported and released are just being uselessly overprotective of their works! If I were Rick, I'd say "port it as much as you like". This would spread the theme to PC Land, where PC users would become more aware of my works, in turn, spreading my work even further,

#311874

It does make sense, in one way, to look at people modding your themes as a compliment, but on the other hand, if someone does a really crappy job (like quite a few of these modders do), then you have your name attached to a piece of junk, and who wants that?

#311875

But the thing is, your name isn't totally attached :P Someone might say, "WOW! That is a piece of trash. I hope the original looks better than this port :S" He/she looks at the original, and there's the real work. The original is admired, but the port is noted as ugly.

#311876