The Official MWSF'05 Thread!

How is the MiniMac any different than any other Mac other than it's size?

Your statement makes 0 sense.

Also...

1.) There are PC's out there that are the same size and smaller.

2.) EVERY component in a Micro PC CAN be upgraded. MiniMac's have very few components that can be upgraded.

3.) Micro PC's are cheaper to build and have more options available for them.

These are just a few observations.

Granted, the MiniMac looks cool, but that's alone is not reason enough to buy an overpriced piece of Apple hardware with such limited capabilities. For what you're getting, this thing is still over priced. For the cost of a nicely equiped MiniMac, not fully loaded, you could get a G4 iBook or eMac. Then you would at least get the quality of having an Apple display.

A dualie G5 on the other hand... now you're talking.

Please show me a pc like that. The Mac mini is 1/7 the height and 1/2 the length of a normal desktop.

Why are you so against Apple products? I have seen a lot of your posts dissing Apple and their products. The Mac mini is very powerful for it's size. I like it

#245952

Unbeliever, do not insult Dell. Although I have a higher allegiance to Apple, Dell is amazing.

Anyway, if I buy the Mini, I would use it as a secondary computer-- for the Mac experience that you are talking about. Surfing the web, playing around...anything heaver, Windows is nice.

oh, and for all interesting with comparing iLife to Windows equivalents (haha, what equivalents?), here's a nice site. Some of it invalidates your comments Unbe.

osxvsxp.com

Flame On! As Johnny Storm once said.

-NC

#245954

Who in there right mind is gonna hook their old POS monitor up to a Mac. If youre broke maybe, but tell me you wouldn't want to get a nice flat panel or Cinema display to go with it.

That's what Apple is betting on. Hell, their banking on it.

Even a cheap 15" (yuck) 1024x768 flat panel would still put your initial investment total at around $800 or $900 without any upgrades to the Mini.

If you are one of the few that have a decent quality monitor laying around, sure, it makes good sense. Compatible keyboards and mice are cheap so they really don't count in the cost factor, but a nice wireless set will still run you about $70 to $100.

And CHi Chi said it best... most of the software needed for Windows security is either already there or can be gotten for free... not pirated, but free.

Also, $399 in the PC world would get you a fairly decent system. I didn't say it would be an awesome super gamer let's run every app in the world PC, but you can get a lower end P4 BYO system with 512MB ram an 80GB HD and a DVD burner for that kind of money. They may not be the absoloute best quality, but the choices and FUTURE ability to UPGRADE EACH COMPONENT are there.

A real video card with 128 MB will cost you about $100. So that would put it in the same price range as a low-end mini with more ram, more storage, better video quality and the ability to UPGRADE when you get more cash.

The Apple solution to the upgrade issue... buy a new Mac.

Yea you still can't run OS X on a PC... that's the only bummer.

And how many people are REALLY gonna use GarageBand... that's a few gig of HD space I won't waste.

People who do it for real, myself included, use Pro Tools or some other REAL recording software.

And to use all, hell most of iLife's features would require an upgrade to the Mini just to use them.

"4.3GB of disk space required to install GarageBand, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD; or 250MB to install iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie only " So basicaly that 4.1GB of wasted space already just for GarageBand... iPhoto is FREE anyway.

"Burning DVDs using iDVD requires an Apple SuperDrive. "

That's another $100 to add on to the price.

"iMovie HD: Import and edit high definition video. "

With a 32MB video card... right.

See my point... it's a neat toy for kids to play with or parents to use to make their kids think they're cool too.

And how many of those parents are gonna start cursing Apple for putting iLife on system that can't use a lot of the it without PAYING MORE money for a slow SuperDrive and Apples overpriced memory. And as for editing video... there's nothing they can do about it. 32MB is all you get.

So iDVD HD becomes useless as well.

#245965

Please show me a pc like that. The Mac mini is 1/7 the height and 1/2 the length of a normal desktop.

Why are you so against Apple products? I have seen a lot of your posts dissing Apple and their products. The Mac mini is very powerful for it's size. I like it

Micro ATX systems... small.. cheap... upgradeable.

I love Macs... I just don't think this one is worth the hype around it.

It's a toy for small children and parents who don't use a computer alot.

It serves a purpose and Apple has chosen to pursue it.

But they are very decptive as to it's abilities... see my other posts about actual cost of ownership for it and what is really needed to run the included iLife software.

Users are gonna find that if they want to get the most from their Mini, it's gonna cost 'em.

To you casual users.. maybe not.

Nightcrawler has a good point... it's not bad as a secondary system. Surfing and email and crap.

I'm done... dead horse beaten to a pulp by now. All gooey and stuff oozing out everywhere.

#245967

ok, let`s agree that we disagree cause that`s obviously the case.

and i think ur missing the point with insisting on the display. Steve described mini as BYODKM (Bring Your Own Display Keyboard Mouse). Mac mini is more of a taste of OSX, then a replacement for iMac/Power series.

But since you missed so many points of the mini, i just don`t have any will to try and without any right, show them down your throat.

@ NC - your link ain`t working :slant:

#245968

AV, FW, yearly fees for AV updates = no viri to worry about

critical security OS updates = no security threats

anti spyware = no spyware

outlook express = Mail.app

hotmail account (!!!) = iCal

? = font book

? = iDVD

? = iPhoto

win movie makes = iMovie

What a load of bollocks! Especially the bold bit.

AV Free versions available & free firewall / No viruses & free firewall

OS updates = OS updates

spyware = no spyware

thunderbird = mail.app

outlook = ical (Hotmail doesn't enter into it)

?? = font book (but then how many normal consumers use font book?)

?? = iDVD

Picasa = iPhoto

Movie maker = iMovie

That was the biggest fanboy post I've ever read from a whole heap of Unbe's latest batch of (rather poor) posts. And before you go off on one, my main PC is a 15" Powerbook

#245969

Thx Ludge... Unb missed the point... I was trying to stay away from the OS.

It's irrelevant as that would apply to ALL Macs and PC's.

I was comparing the Mini's hardware and its abilities or the lack of them. Somehow OS and software got shoved into it. But that did help extend my point to some extent.

#245972

That was the biggest fanboy post I've ever read from a whole heap of Unbe's latest batch of (rather poor) posts.

Sorry about the link-- I was doing it off memory. Turns out it is xvsxp.com . Interesting read, if you've got the time.

-NC

#245973

What a load of bollocks! Especially the bold bit.

AV Free versions available & free firewall / No viruses & free firewall

OS updates = OS updates

spyware = no spyware

thunderbird = mail.app

outlook = ical (Hotmail doesn't enter into it)

?? = font book (but then how many normal consumers use font book?)

?? = iDVD

Picasa = iPhoto

Movie maker = iMovie

That was the biggest fanboy post I've ever read from a whole heap of Unbe's latest batch of (rather poor) posts. And before you go off on one, my main PC is a 15" Powerbook

since u obviously want me to respond to this flame bait:

regular OS updates ≠ critical security updates

free AVs, free firewalls and a constant risk of new security holes ≠ no viruses and need for firewalls

spyware ≠ no spyware

tbird = mail.app - could be, i`ll give u that

outlooks EXPRESS ≠ iCal (Outlook express is free, Outlook is not and comes only with Office which costs mucho dinero)

how many users use sound recorder, hyper terminal and character map in windows? being bundled is a plus, not a minus (in most cases)

iDVD = ?

movie maker = iMovie? i doubt it

picasa = iPhoto? (until few months ago Picassa was free and only since Google bought it has become freeware.)

And for the GarageBand thing rj brought up, you`re missing the market segment of the mini, it`s NOT targeting pros, it`s targeting switchers/wannabes/light users/pple who just wanna try OSX. IT'S NOT FOR PROS!!!

And this is the worst post i could write but it`s still better than your trolling

I have no intention on going onto anyone, i just hate pple who have crappy arguments.

there`s no counter-argument to "because i say so" argument :slant:

i`ll retreat now, have a nice night/day gentleman

#245978

There's no accounting for taste

-NC

#245983

.....blah blah.....

I love Macs... I just don't think .... blah blah yada yada.

you just seem to love to argue and be 'right', that's all. i look forward to an rjohnstone post as much as i do a hangnail. >_<

#245988

as much as I would like to read it, is that the right link for osxvsxp.com? Its not working for me. I imagine there would be some pretty interesting points on there.

#246003

Fact #1: mobility

I mostly work at home, but sometimes I need to port some work to the office or the advertising agency. I also spend about 15-20 days, 3 times a year, at my folks. And sometimes I have to visit clients for presentations etc. That's why I was considering buying a laptop.

Fact #2: screen res

I do need a high resolution to work normally... I can settle for a 1280x1024 temporarily, but I need more than that, and a laptop with such a 1600x1200 or better monitor costs thousands of $.

Fact #3: availability of monitors & stuff

Given the fact that I can find a monitor, keyboard & mouse in every one of the above places, all I have to carry around is my desktop! (which I have done a few times) :-P

Fact #4: hardware specs

My current PC is an Athlon 1800+, 40GB HD space, 256MB of RAM, CD-R & DVD drives, 56k modem, and a lousy graphics card... a system that's not too different than the Mac mini.

Fact #5: i want MY computer around

Moving around data in flash drives, CDs and DVDs (or even in a 40GB iPod drive), isn't enough for me. I need my apps, my system configured the way I want, etc.

Dilemma:

Should I buy something like the Mac mini, or spend the $500 (which would end up being just below $1000) to upgrade my system, forget about mobility and postpone the own-a-Mac dream?

#246052

you just seem to love to argue and be 'right', that's all. i look forward to an rjohnstone post as much as i do a hangnail. >_<

I wasn't trying to be right. I state my opinion about what I thought about the Mini and I get flamed.

Please... spare me your pretentious crap.

I didn't start it, but I will not sit by and be called names for stating "my opinion".

I thought that was the whole point of this thread.

Sounds to me like Unbeleiver is the one who has to be right.

And to add a little FACT to his last post... Apple has posted numerous SECURITY patches for OS X.

One of them that Apple clearly stated the only fix for it was to upgrade from 10.2.x to 10.3

The release of 10.3 contained 14 Security only related "updates".

From Sept. 2003 up to Jan. 11 2005, Apple has released a total of 32 Security only related bundle patches.

And each patch contained more than one product patch. In fact a total of 150 Security related fixes were relaeased in this time frame. But OS X is not vulnerable... right.

And to say there is no need for a firwall... then how come OS X comes with one... And it's enabled by default!

I hate blowhards who "think" they know everything without even doing 30 seconds worth of research.

Here is the source for the security patches right from Apple's own site.http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798

There is NO such thing as a secure OS.

And everyone should be running a firewall of some sort... if you "think" you don't need one, give me your IP. You'll be changing your mind within 24 hours.

Hell... a script kiddie can bring a system to a halt inside of 10 minutes just by sheer luck alone if it doesn't have some sort of halfway decent firewall. You wouldn't believe how many people are surviving on dumb luck alone.

#246053

Meh... so much for civilized discussion.

Is there a real need to insult? i am not pointing fingers but seriously, you people are all of a certain age, act like it. You should be used to maintaining opinion oriented conversations with people...

Well, maybe not and this is why you are left to hang out here...

Please, respect other opinions or i will have to close the thread, tis is obvious there is some knowledge behind what you are saying, remove the egocentric comments and shots and let the information that is left out be of service to someone. THat i why we KEEP THE THREADS ARCHIVED, not so you can inmortalize your whining.

#246073

then how come OS X comes with one... And it's enabled by default!

My iMac did not ship with the firewal enabled...in fact even though I know of the dangers one would encounter with a non-firewalled system I have not had the need to enable the firewal built in to OSX. So it is in fact NOT enabled by default. Nor have I installed any anti-virus software like I did in my windows days....so perhaps OSX is not completely secure, for like you said, no system is secure, but it is by far one of the most secure OS that I have used in my limited life span.

#246075

You can get antivirus and anti spyware stuff for free and window comes with a built in firewall. Lots of of ISP's offer firewalls and AV and anti spyware software for free also. Microsoft is even releasing new AV and antispyware apps free as benefits of the Geniune Microsoft Windows thing theyre doing.

Windows also comes with movie maker, windows media player, and lots of computers come bundled with software like nero that might not be as flashy as some of ilife stuff, but can still do the job. Theres also outlook express that comes for free and you can get thunderbird/sunbird for free too as well as a hotmail account and use the calendar in that. Theres plenty of quality products that you can get without paying a dime through open source and microsoft and things that come bundled with your computer or hardware like DVD burners.

A firewall that makes your PC a livng hell you mean. Windows is one big leak and te only way to prevent is this : DO NOT download more SP's than SP 1 (for USB 2) SP 2 is crap. Windows security is CRAP. I have Norton Antivirus 2005 and Giant Antispy to keep my pc a bit up and running ....

Itunes kicks WMP's ass. Nothing more to it. Nero is available for mac if im not mistaking.

Hotmail ... I mean give me a break .... Hotmail

Are you a comedian ???

#246410

You can't compare! OSX beats Windows in every aspect except for market share

#246429

I think I'm gonna go out side and scream....

http://promo.euro.apple.com/promo/noel/uk/

*hint - check the expiry date

#246434

A firewall that makes your PC a livng hell you mean. Windows is one big leak and te only way to prevent is this : DO NOT download more SP's than SP 1 (for USB 2) SP 2 is crap. Windows security is CRAP. I have Norton Antivirus 2005 and Giant Antispy to keep my pc a bit up and running ....

Itunes kicks WMP's ass. Nothing more to it. Nero is available for mac if im not mistaking.

Hotmail ... I mean give me a break .... Hotmail

Are you a comedian ???

Are *you* a comedian? Beside the RPC-virusses, other virus-infections requir user-action to be taken. If you are not using IE, your spyware problems are really caused by visiting/downloading certain things (cracks, warez, porn-sites) or installing software with spyware in them.

You can't compare! OSX beats Windows in every aspect except for market share

Besides that windows still has compatibility for old applications and their API (you can still run windows 1.0 applications on your current windows). This might be of no use for daily users, but for companies this is vital. Most companies have internally developed software that is often very old and is vital for the company. You don't want to break that.

#246437

you can still run windows 1.0 applications on your current windows

Yeah theres this website where you can DL all the windows 1 apps and they work properly too, although their in black and white and arn't much by todays standard.

Also I'd like to add that perhaps the mac mini spec's arn't as nice as their PC alternatives but I mostly bought a mac for it's OS not for the iMac performance/hardware specs.

#246649

I guess the Mac vs PC thread should be pinned!

... and place a shortcut to it all over the site

:-)

#246685

My iMac did not ship with the firewal enabled...in fact even though I know of the dangers one would encounter with a non-firewalled system I have not had the need to enable the firewal built in to OSX. So it is in fact NOT enabled by default. Nor have I installed any anti-virus software like I did in my windows days....so perhaps OSX is not completely secure, for like you said, no system is secure, but it is by far one of the most secure OS that I have used in my limited life span.

When I installed 10.3 on my iBook from scratch, it had the firewall services running and was actively blocking ports. May have been in the selection choices whan I did the custom install, don't remember seeing it though.

Anyway... I know I personaly never turned it on. Perhaps that was an assumption on my part that it's on by default since I hadn't turned it on.

As for security, yes... OS X is by far one of the most secure out there.

I still run Norton AV on it... I'm paranoid what can I say. It's only a matter of time before someone gets bored enough and writes a bug for OS X.

#246798

Mac mini looks great!

But a mac mini have to load somethimes? (He didnt use a Mac mini on the "demos" on MWSF'05, right? )

And another question: Can I use my old PC monitor on Mac mini?

I have a 1,3 ghz , 128 Ram, 40 gb, Ati radion 9600xt. Buy a Mac mini or buy a new CPU and RAM (450$) hm,, hm..

#248304

Of course. Just use the included DVI to VGA adapter

#248309