Aqua-Soft ForumsIve been lookin at linux. Theres not as much hand-holding as a mac or pc (as most computer geeks know). Im lookin to make it as easy as possiable, so I was lookin at lindows 3 (Daiban+KDE3 all in 1) or some form of linux + KDE3.1. Any thoughts? Ease of ues/tweekin? Stability? Anything is helpful. 
Lindows3 Vs. Any Linux Distro+kde3.1
Lindows Sucks, its that simple. Its inferior in almost every way, AND IT COSTS MONEY! Its got a crippled version of KDE, the packages it comes with suck, and it costs even more money just to get programs for it. Get mandrake 9.1, it gone final and it will be available for download in a couple days. Its just about as easy, but it will actually let you LEARN LINUX. It has a GUI alternative for most things, so if you dont feel like learning the command line, you can use menus. Plus, its 1 of 2 distros (other one is Xandros) that lets you non destructivly resize NTFS partitions, very usefull.
Download MDK9.1, see if you like it,and end up using it, buy it, its only like $40 and will support the company. Linux is wonderful, there are so many great, FREE distros out there, that you really have a lot of choice.
I like MDK by the way 
, it really helped ease me into linux while still giving me the option to do things the hard way so I could learn the cl.
Contrasutra,
I am going to take it that you have not used Lindows. I have used many distros and Lindows is by far the best. I have been using Lindows for a few months now and it is the only distro that has made it possible to get away from windows. You talk about how Mandrake is only $40, but you seem opposed to paying anything, what is that about? Lindows is only $49 for the OS or $129 for the OS and a 1 year Click-N-Run warehouse membership (which has been so worth it. I am very tech savy, that is my job, but software installation in any other linux is a beast of a task. Lindows CNR allows you to set up what they call aisles and with 2 clicks of the mouse, all your programs can be downloaded and installed. Plus, you don't have to continue to pay for the CNR membership, once you install a piece of software, it is yours from the CNR warehouse for life. That includes all of the other propriatary software like StarOffice 6 that comes with the CNR warehouse. With Lindows you get so many pieces of software that also cost money that it makes it so worth the money (plus awesome tech support). If you were only going to buy MDK and StarOffice, it would cost $100, with Lindows you get those things plus a ton of other stuff. By the way Xandros costs money also. And Xandros is basically a sucky Lindows (they used to be quasi-business partners). I promise that I am not trying to flame you it is just that I know you haven't tried it (because it obviously costs money) and if you had, you would understand.
PS. MetalMusicAddict: Lindows is based on Debian which makes another aspect of software installation awesome...
If you go to tthe command line and type:
apt-get install alien
from that point on you can install rpms also just by typing
alien -i ___.rpm (where ___ is the name of the rpm.
you cannot apt-get software in any other form of linux but debian (or mac with fink installed, but mac is unix).
Hope this helps.
Hey Juniperlater, we have talked before about Lindows. Thanx for the info. Nobody else seems to know too much about Lindows. Contrasutra, do you use this as a main OS or just somethin to play with? Thanx. 
heres my 2 cents. i have played with linux for a long time. i installed redhat 5.2 out of a copy of "red had linux unleashed" that i got from the library on my 486 100mHz laptop. i learned how to get a number of things working using the gui tools. but it is only recently, when i have started taking a class, and learning how to use it from the command line, that i really began to like linux, and not just like the idea of linux. lindows helps one use a linux os, and not really learn the command line, but that is not using linux. just like most mac osx users have never even opened terminal, but now that i know more about how to use it, i think it is one of the key reasons to use osx. try to take a class at a community college or something. if possible, either put a box on a network with cable or dsl, or use another computer to give you a shared dial up connection, and do an install of red hat with everything except the gui. vi is the best example of *nix. it can do so much in three keystokes that would either take a long time with ms word, or would be impossible, but the learning curve is terribly daunting. and to the earlier comment that installation of apps is a beast, just try it, when you do it once successfully, you will see how easy it is. basically you download a .tar.bz . you type gunzip "name of file" (by the way, just type the first part then press tab, it will complete it for you) then type ./comfigure, then "make", then "make install" you are done. thats it. and pretty much easier than windows!!!!
i have no issues with a gui, i think it is one of the best things to happen to computers, and people who knock the gui are just too busy being proud of what they can do. its learning how to use the gui at the same time as learning the command line that allows someone real power user status and ability. thats why i love osx, its a gui, a unix command line, apps are available, and its a beautiful interface. plus all your apps are just one file, and not dll crap. anyway, my suggestion on a unix distro, is to go ahead and get the mac osx that brought you here!!!!!
Im sure lindows is a great OS.. i have used it only a couple times installing for some people... it seems good. I personaly would go with mandrake 9.1 when it comes out.. it has great community support.. great packages and amazing Control panel and mandrake apps to help confgiure your system or install software... it is a great distro.. but you choose!
-bolero
Thanx people. Are there any docks for linux?
I have used Lindows extensivly. As for Star Office, the $40 version of Mandrake comes with it, and thats cheaper than retail. Installing (most) software is really easy in Mandrake, and most other distros. You download a tar.gz, type tar -xvzf tarname -> make -> make install, and your done, ouch 3 clicks! And RPMS, just rpm -i rpmname, thats ONE CLICK! Plus you get LOADS of software with Mandrake (2 CDs worth) and you just go into the package manager and choose what software you want, no downloading necessary. It even handles dependencies real great for you.
Lindows gives you a windows type system for Linux, but the linux system is so much better and ALMOST as easy, why would you?
The whole point of Open Source is free software, you can use software for free and if you like it pay for it, its better for the consumer when they dont have to pay for something just to try it. Lindows charges you for OS and software. I like mandrakes comparision, the Street Performer model.
The $899 Lindows Laptop is pretty cool though, wipe it and install a real distro.
I dont think there are any docks for Linux. None of the DEs can handle that yet. If there was one though, it'd be for KDE, probobly.
First:
Lindows is not copying windows, if they were doing that it would look like Lycoris (desktop LX).
Second:
I could understand your points if you have experience with Lindows when it was in the 2.0 stages (it is now at 3.0.5 general release 3.1 soon to be released). It was not very good and back then I used it very little.
Third:
What you are calling clicks are actually commands. When I say installing software is one click away, I mean MOUSE clicks.
Fouth:
OpenSource does not equal free like Free Beer, it means free like free information.
Fifth:
As a result of misconceptions about number four every linux company out there with the exception of Red Hat is in financial trouble. (Got an email from Mandrake asking for money like 60 days ago saying if they don't get x dollars they are going to have to shut down.) And if stock prices are any indication, Red Hat is in trouble too.
Sixth:
The Lindows laptop is $799 and it does kick ass. I was at the Desktop Linux Summit and got to play with it. IT ROCKS!
Sorry to rant, but I am kinda tired of hearing all this bad stuff about Lindows because they are not free.
Later
PS MetalMusicAddict,
There is no dock that I have seen anywhere, but you can make the kicker in KDE look pretty good. Follow the link to a screenshot.
I havent tried the newest version of Lindows, so I will be sure to try it out.
Of course they are copying Windows Look and feel. Its called LINDOWS for god sake!
I realize they are not clicks, but typing 6 letters is not very hard, I would compare that to the ease of use of a click. How long does it take you to type tar -xvzf?
I realize free does not mean no money, but my problem is Lindows doesnt give their information out for free. I suppose their are ways to get the source, compile it, and go through all this trouble, but why make it so hard on people? I mean, they are using free code and they are charging fo it, Debian doesnt charge and its their distro. In my mind, they're stealing. Like I had said, try the software by downloading it, and if you like it, buy it! You have to BUY lindows just to use it. What happens if you dont like it?
I know Many Linux companies are in trouble, and its because they have strong ethics and would rather lose some money than take advantage of their customers (lindows = microsoft jr.).
Is Sun Microsystems stealing from Open Office? You know they do not release all of their source right? Did you know that Lindows sends all modifications to Debian back to debian? All modifications to Samba are released back to Samba? And on and on. The only things they do not release are things that they single handedly develop, such as click and run. Do you thing that open source project developers are pissed at them? Ask codeweavers who brought them to San Diego for an all expensed paid conference. Ask wine developers who has sponsored them in a lot of ways. Ask KDE-look.org who almost 100% sponsors their website. Things like this are what happens when money is coming in to a Linux company. The absence of those things is what happens with no income distros. Also, no income or low income distros have crap servers where it could take hours and hours per iso to download, but with Lindows, the iso takes like 20 minutes and then software installs take a few minutes. Star Office for example is around 150MB and downloads and installs in like 3 minutes (on my high speed connection). I have been tired of waiting hours for crap servers of low income no income distros.
PS is calling X windows copying the name of windows?
And what does Lindows do to take advantage of their customers?
well X has many names.. heheh X window... X windowS X11 Xfree or just X
or X windowing system..
I got nothing against Lindows.. i lvoe all Linux or.. *nix OS.. iv used them for a very very long time so Lindows is linux.. i like lindows then...
but click n run is pnly useful for the apps they supply until you get into 3erd party software where you may have to compile.
Also.. im pretty sure lindows doesnt copy the look and feel. i know thats how it was in lindows 1.x.. im not sure bout 2.. buti rememer seeing alot of lindows screenshots from there site with the keramik Decoration and widgets along with crystal...so i personlay dont think there copying windows look n feel. But they have a good idea on how to get people to linux. More people to linux the better 
althugh i dont use lindows.. i use other distro's. But everyone has an opinion
I realize that they are not braking the GPL, but to make it exceedingly difficult to get the software free, they are hurting the whole linux idea.
Its not just the name they are copying, their whole philosophy was to provide a Windows environment in Linux.
Quote from lindows site: LindowsOSTM 3.0 is a new operating system that delivers the power, stability and cost-savings of Linux® with the ease of windows.
PS. Open Office is just the released code of StarOffice 5, so Sun can't steal software from themselves.
damnit, i have to comment.
i was under the impression that Lindows was originally built to be a linux clone of windows, but then it kind of went a different way with the whole CNR business. so that's that.
as per distros to check out... if you want it to be simple, probably look at redhat. that's what it's targeted towards. SuSE looks pretty good too. Distrowatch.com for more on any of this stuff, by the way.
if you want to just mess around, look at Knoppix... it's cd-based.
if you want to really learn linux, try Slackware, or Debian. Debian is basically about the command line, and Slackware is quite powerful... it's überhardcore and such. idk, i'm really sleep deprived, so just visit distrowatch. it's helpful. peace.
-Felix
LINDOWS = Linux Debian + some wine implemetation = #$%&@"#$@
My experience:
RedHat
Suse
Mandrake
Slackware
Of course lindows
A little of Debian (the friendless/hard way to learn linux. If u got Debian u r a real hacker, congrats)
KDE
Gnome
WindowsMaker
And, of course, many hours of headache writing/compiling in a console.
I prefer "any distro" + wine instead lindows. I got wine running flawlesly (Ie, Oe, Word, Excel, Corel, Photoshop, Notepad, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, even explorer.exe)
I'm not hacker/programmer so I only can talk about user-side implementation. I luv u blessed programmer ppl 
BTW there r many utilz to untar/configure/make/make install/make uninstall so I don't understand why I have to lose my time using rpm command, or tar command...
Mandrake if u want all working with few clicks.
RedHat if u want to learn Linux (easy way)
Suse if u want to take advantage of "few clicks/keystrokes and learn Linux" at same time
Slackware if u want a second round (only if u were winner with all other distros)
Debian ONLY if u want to be GODLIKE
Lindows: I need to work with new version juniperlater, maybe new version rox, maybe not, who knows
Just my personal though dudes
P.S.: Linux is my hobbie, not my work, same with Apple.
Gentoo Linux. One Word
Portage.
similar to apt-get or FreeBSD Port's system Yet VERY MUCH MORE POWERFUL.
eat yur heart out Debian.
and also Check out the Forums on their Site. The Community is awesome.
Gentoo for a beginner? C'mon. Why do all the Gentoo fanatics say its for ****s as well, its not, its that simple. Its very hard to get running. Its worth the time, but many people (including myself) wont be able to get it running right.
Thats very true contrasutra, hehe i just couldnt let all this linux talk go by without mentioning Gentoo.
Ok back to topic, i learned Linux using Mandrake. few months of that and i was ready to learn more.
The change came when i tried to upgrade KDE, and RPM dependencies stopped that real quick. kde3.1.rpm needs qt.v3.34423743 to install blah blah.... then you install qt rpm and it says it needs gcc.3.53453543 or something similar to install. it was a nightmare.
One thing Mandrake will teach you, is Bash.. heh
If your going to learn linux. i urge you to at least add Gentoo's site to your fav's after a few months of linux, the gentoo install docs start to make sense.
Maybe ill give Gentoo a try later. Im gonna get the new version of Slackware when an ftp server actually opens up. I mean, jeez, so many people. ugg.
Doin a clean install for any of the linux dostros seems hard. Ive played with Lindows and the disk is bootable. Not that I aint up for a challenge but comming from a windows enviroment it all seems scary. 
And the other thing I start to think about is drivers. AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Except for Nvidia cards, drivers are real easy. Most hardware is supported out of the box by major distros, and others are just unpacking RPMS. Nvidia is a little difficult though, you just have to follow the steps.
AAA!!! @ out of 3 of my video cards are nVidia. Well im only 1 will be used for linux. I got some spare parts to play with.
I've been using linux, since Slackware came out as a 14 Floppies distribution and I installed it in a 468 33Mhz.
I have installed the m68k distribution in an Amiga 1200. Installed Yellow Dog linux in a Power Macintosh 7200
I work as a Senior Solaris/Linux systems administrator. That is my background.
All linux distributions are created equal, but linux distributions are like soccer teams. yours is the best whatever the results or what other people may tell you. That said this is what *I* think of the most used distributions.
I recently went back to Slackware (9.0) and have been using it since early beta. This distribution is to me the best of the best. Add Dropline Gnome and you have yourself the most powerfull linux distribution. It doesn't have fancy installers, and it is not for ****ies, but if you want the best of the best.. slackware is.
I have deployed multiple Red-Hat systems. (version 8) easy to install, easy to maintain, add Ximian's gnome and you got yourself a nice system. I dislike the file system layout but I can live with it.
Mandrake = Redhat = Mandrake, a couple of things changed here and there.. but they are exactly the same.
Debian is after Slackware one of the most powerfull systems, but the installation is hell, hopefully this will be fixed in coming versions.
Gentoo, well this distribution has nothing to offer me personally, but it might appeal to people in the mid range of Linux knowledge.
Lindows.. well... I installed... twice... kept it in the system for a few hours.. hated it. too lame to consider it, to expensive to make it worth the effort of even install it.
as far as drivers goes.. the X system will work with any card you may have, if you have NVIDIA and want to use the NVIDIA drivers instead of the default installed by X then yes.. you will have to work a little bit harder.. not much tho.
Telmo, Thank you very much for the info. Slackware and Debian sound like a good choice once I get my feet a little more wet. Gotta turn all my spare parts into a computer first. Again, thanx.