Aqua-Soft ForumsWidget Wars!
Originally posted by alilm@Aug 19 2004, 07:05 AMI feel the urge to make another widget application >.<
ahhhhh
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me too....only I cant code.... :cry: 
Originally posted by AndreasV+Aug 19 2004, 05:04 PM-->QUOTE(AndreasV @ Aug 19 2004, 05:04 PM)
Very good post,
I'm posting this for my little brother who (13) I gave him a peak at the whole customization scene, and he wanted to have all those fancy things on his desktops that you guys show off here in the DT thread. So I gave him a link to DesktopX, and I have to say for a 13yr old to sit down and just be able to customize his desktop just by going to wincustomize and grab all the crap he wants and it install it auto (most of the time) can't get any easier than that. Yes 90% of the things up there are just utter crap, and am shocked that they allow users to post some of it.
Any hoot, I myself I haven't tried any of the apps but desktopx but that was years ago. I myself think customizing is stupid now 
lets all stop playing dress up with our pcs and get a life? (Y)
DesktopX is memory eating,it takes up approx. 19M memory,and if I have loaded more than 5 objects.it wil takes up 20-30% of ur CPU.so I dont like it.it's to load all objects on windows' start up.and objects moves from its original place when objectbar loads skin.I prefer AveDesk1.1,it takes only abit more than 500K memory
Wow, you must be doing something seriously wrong to have those issues? 
I must admit I haven't used DX2.1 in ages as with OD you get the latest beta all the time, but I don't remember having icons moving even with DX1.2.
The memory usage has got a lot better. Even with a load of widgets you'll be unlucky if it goes over 6MB.
@babypapichulo : " And if you dont care about the "mac look" "
Why cant' you just replicate the Mac graphics as we do for Samurize and AveDesk? They don't make everything look Mac like as a function 
Just one thing, you cant compare the memory usage of the processes as easy as you do.
For example: An application uses the shell32.dll -> its memoryusage in taskmanager grows, BUT other processes already use this dll, so the total memory used wont grow.
You have to look in a detail-processview and substract the used dlls when they are already used on your system. So the dll-memory used on your system differs from other users.
Another example Ave uses the gdi+ dll when you already run an app like object-dock, that also uses it it makes no difference for you.
Another thing is how much of the application can be swapped out when memory becomes rare.
A 10mb app that can move 9mb to the pagefile is better than a 2 mb app, which non-swapable memory-allocations.
A good point. But for speed and users unsure about how to view that, or know what to look for they will just resort to the apps current mem usage in the task manager.
It's getting to the point though where my 2MB for Ave and my 2MB for DX etc etc doesn't matter.
How many users now have 1GB Ram (a lot I hope)? I'm sure there can't be many with less than 512 who are into modding their systems or use it for serious work.
@Judge: Do you think it would be feasible for you to set up a donation system as w/ Ave? As I know I would like to see how you could expand it [sysStats] and I'm sure many others would.
BTW about Konfabulator I may be wrong but is it the only one not supporting DLL plugins ?
I think some programs are just better at certain thigs. I would never let go of samurize mainly because of its super-friendly GUI for config creation. There's a lot of things I would like for Samurize to have but for meters and stats nothing is as easy to use while still retaining all that customization power. I try other software, and right now I am also running Avedesk, but Samurize truly is vital por my daily use, especially my laptop, where I keep stats that are really important for the operation of my computer, not just visual gizmos.
But I do like Avedesk a lot because of its pristine display and blending quality. Too bad systats is such a pain to use for a non-coder like me.
A lot people migrated over to laptops some years ago. I can and have upgraded my laptop up to a grand total of... 192MB of memory. Yes, that's right, you read right. If you know what you are doing you can skinny Windows XP down to its bare operating essentials, switch off various services, run various tweak programs and have a laptop with just 192mb and a celery 550 processor... that really flies. Unless you are multi tasking.
Point being, memory matters. These forums have generated a lof of sales for Apple but, equally, there are a lot of stubborn hobbiests who like to thrash low spec systems just for the challange, and then there are the laptop uses who have no choice; with my desktop computer I can whip out the insides and cheaply upgrade. In a little over a year I will ditch this laptop, but few people do that lightly. There are a lot university students, here. You know, student loans ? :6
I tried the shareware Desktopx 2.1 and was almost sold when I had fish swimming around my wallpaper. Pity they didn't look terribly real and swam in pre-set patterns but.. nice! A lot of the themes available for Desktopx look a bit plastic and aimed at teens ? I know that is a generalisation on a sophisticated product put together by a production team I have a lot of new found respect for (to all doubters, please give Windowblinds another try, it evolved wonderfully) but after having a good look at the many Desktopx themes on offer, that view stuck. Want to convince me otherwise? Post some screenshots, especially those that showcase Desktopx's unique qualities.
I have seen some stunning desktops that utilize Samurize - mainly done by Germans; aren't Germans great!!! - but... ease of use isn't quite there, yet.
I need to take another look at Kapsules but it did seem to have ease of use on its side and some clean cut looks.
AVEDesk has been a joy. Yes, even on the laptop. Without wishing in any way to detract from the others, this one lives up to the hype. Get it !
Point being, competition is good and we all have our preferences but, if you are a developer, it makes sense to pitch your product at all demographics, not just the boys with the fast cars. MEMORY MATTERS/don't forget laptop users! I once heard Bill Gates bemoan the fact that the take up of new technology hasn't been as fast as he would have liked. I wonder if he has been bribing antii virus companies to slow down our computers so much that we shell out for faster ones/upgrade ? 
bottom line for me is that most of the objects that I have used for desktopx just dont look refined like konfab or avedesk or samurize. They often look almost cartoony. The ones that I really did like (nowheremans panther drives) used lots of resources to the point where it wasnt worth using anymore. I hope that the new version is better on resources and people start making some nice looking widgets...
Why is the look of widgets the fault of the program?
It's the designers, not the program. I noticed the strain on the system with Nowhereman's labels, and no disrespect to him it''s down more to the implementation than the system.
Granted DX2.1 doesn't help his labels at all.
Originally posted by Septimus+Aug 20 2004, 08:18 AM-->QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 20 2004, 08:18 AM)Why is the look of widgets the fault of the program?It's the designers, not the program. I noticed the strain on the system with Nowhereman's labels, and no disrespect to him it''s down more to the implementation than the system.
Granted DX2.1 doesn't help his labels at all.
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couldn't be better said..but it looks to me some people (not you bz, not you) are to lazy to go with a more powerfull app and make thier own stuff from scratch regardless of how easy it is...
They just go with the apps that already have it out. In this case for emulation it is AveDesk 1.1...all the features are already there regardless of it's posible in another app or not..I for one WILL download desktopx 2.2 just too see if it is such a huge update....
There is also the one big DISadvantage of being commercial: WinCustomize can't host ripped stuff.
If you look at the screenshots of many of the freeware programs, a good chunk of the widgets are ripped from Konfabulator (or more recently Dashboard).
It would be easy to just assign someone to go through Konfab's library and rip every widget. In a couple of days every Konfabulator Widget could be a DX widget (DX supports Javascript so a lot of it would be cut and paste).
But we can't. So we have to rely on original artwork.
now i`m going to look bad but dashboard iTunes and DX iTunes widget u`ve been showing us look interestingly similar
And it`s not Ave's or Nem's/Alderaic's fault people like good looking widgets
I would be happy to go through and make new graphics for widgets... My problem has been tyring to figure out how to do so. I have never been able to figure out how to work with widgets in desktop x (maybe that will change with teh new version)
and I never said it was the programs fault...
I smell a Widget contest in the works, and it smells tasty indeed!
Imagine an all inclusive contest, for new widgets only, that spanned across DesktopX, Samurize, Kapsules, AveDesk 1.1 and SysStats. We could theme the contest as a tribute to the mighty "Apple Dashboard vs. Konfabulator War" thats happening on the other side of the OS fence.
Any ideas guys? Who wants to go find some prizes for this?
Originally posted by Frogboy@Aug 20 2004, 04:30 PMThere is also the one big DISadvantage of being commercial: WinCustomize can't host ripped stuff.
If you look at the screenshots of many of the freeware programs, a good chunk of the widgets are ripped from Konfabulator (or more recently Dashboard).
It would be easy to just assign someone to go through Konfab's library and rip every widget. In a couple of days every Konfabulator Widget could be a DX widget (DX supports Javascript so a lot of it would be cut and paste).
But we can't. So we have to rely on original artwork.
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Good point. My feeling was the the body of the themes availale, though admireable and doubtless of fine quality, generally lacked the clean lines and elegant simplicity that are part and parcel of this particular community. Not everyone here uses rips but variations/themes inspired by. I would like to see more such themes and widgets available for desktopx. A friend who felt the same directed me to the Samurize site. I will eagerly try the public download of desktopx2.2.
I should add the disclaimer that there is of course a subjective element to all of this. Everyone should ignore the hype and detractors and check out the libraries of the aforementioned programs and make up their own minds. Chances are, everyone wins !
Frogboy, I wanted to respond to you in the other DesktopX thread, but it was closed.
I wasn't trying to be hostile. I truly apologize if my post came off that way. I think you and your company have done a great deal for the customizing community, and are continuing to do so. Some may even call you a "visionary," and it wouldn't be that difficult a point to make.
You're correct that I didn't qualify my statements clearly enough. When I said, "I have yet to see a compelling reason to use DX," I meant for me personally; I wasn't trying to speak for other users (probably not the wisest thing to say, since how could you know what would compel any particular user?). And when I said it wouldn't be "as popular," I meant here on Aqua-Soft, as you figured out. Of course, it only makes sense that AveDesk wouldn't be as popular outside of this site, since Andreas pretty much made it for the people here. I also think it's worth noting that a huge number of downloads doesn't necessarily translate into a huge number of regular users, but that's another discussion for another time.
As for your timing being "suspicious," I just found it odd that "As a regular user of Aqua-Soft since the very very beginning" you haven't made one post about DesktopX since last year, when the previous version was released. I realize it must be disheartening to see a similar program getting so much coverage, but I'm wondering why you haven't brought any of the high-quality DX widgets to our attention until now, when AveDesk was in the spotlight. If you had spoken up, it would have saved the artsits here a lot of trouble, and they could have spent that time developing other things!
I referred to your posts as "hyping" because you are the one doing all of the advertising for DX. AD is getting hype (please notice that I also referred to the AD coverage as "hype" in my other post), but it is being spread by people other than the developer. In other words, it's obvious to someone not yet entrenched in the widget scene that people like AveDesk because users other than the author are posting about it. So far, that's not the case with DesktopX despite all the downloads. Hopefully that will change after the 2.2 release.
Regarding ObjectDock, I certainly wasn't trying to "slam" anyone, since I appreciate that it's the only Dock currently in development. In fact, I agreed to help Jeff hunt down a few bugs and offered suggestions to some logistical questions he had. But what bothered me most about the new "free" version was the ad in the context menu. HERE is my post on that subject.
Again, I hope you weren't offended, and I also hope that all the talented developers here figure out how to put each of these programs to the best possible use, so we can all benefit.
I would like to ask one question to all of us, about widget applications...
What do we need widgets for?
Is it:
a. To monitor certain things all the time (cpu temperature, net status, etc)
b. To be able to use real-life objects in no time (calculator, notepad)
c. To enhance our desktop of the month screenshot
The reason I'm asking, is because I liked Apple's approach with Dashboard. I like Samurize and all the other widget apps, but the widgets I really need and use daily are limited to none; not because I don't find them useful or don't like them, but I don't need them so much as to sacrifice desktop real estate for them.
I like how Apple did it (showing/hiding all at the touch of a button), but I'd like more; to have the option to keep a widget always visible on my desktop, along with my windows (as all widget apps do), in order to please my eye candy desire, or because I need to monitor something constantly.
Have a nice day!
Ken
I like keeping certain things on the desktop like weather and a calender, and something like infoline for sysstats monitoring ram/download speed.
For the widgets I have assigned to a hotkey, things like calc, post-it, music player are very useful.
And C yes indeed, it does make the desktop look a lot nicer
Originally posted by Ken@Aug 21 2004, 04:53 AMI like how Apple did it (showing/hiding all at the touch of a button), but I'd like more; to have the option to keep a widget always visible on my desktop, along with my windows (as all widget apps do), in order to please my eye candy desire, or because I need to monitor something constantly.
well not sure about those for AveDesk but I think it does exist
but in samurize you can assign a shortcut key to any instance (usually a widget has its own instance ) to show/hide and you can also set it to always on top nothing new here in Apple Dashboard