Why the Mac users are intolerant? don't accept the deskmod and they attack of the emulation OS-X of our desks.... I was attacked severely in a Mac forum due to I mentioned the emulation in WinXP... 
Radical Hotheads... too much.
(sorry by the text, I don't speak english very well)
unfortunatly, there are two points of view with this thing.
The first one, point of view of a normal xp user. You can customize it the way you want, and the aqua stuff is not from them. You can get many resources and use them however you like.
The second one, mac user. Imagine this situation, i've been thinking of it. You paid money to get a computer with an interface you like, and others are getting it for "free" with out having a mac, is like roms and gaming, you dont own it legaly, so why do you use them if you dont own them. Other is like, imagine if another country gets into your country and starts stealing resources to take them from their country, would that be fair? Why dont the country seeks for those resources in their territory, and not stealing those of the neighborhood? like if your neighbor enter to your house to steal water, would that still be fair?
This thing has many points of view, all valid, but it depends in what position you get to, i think this has no solution, since if you think, all that is done to mimic osx or apple products, is illegal, in graphical design, since the aqua is copyrighted, as far as i know.
The second one, mac user. Imagine this situation, i've been thinking of it. You paid money to get a computer with an interface you like, and others are getting it for "free" with out having a mac, is like roms and gaming, you dont own it legaly, so why do you use them if you dont own them.
But the thing is...we hardly even have what they have anyways. Our desktops might almost resemble what they almost have, but not even close. 
Its people who think copying a look is illegal, (even though no actual code was copied) that are ruining this country (oh wait, were not all in the same country). Id like to refer you to Picasso again. He COPIED many paintings from other people, and they are still beatiful.
Obviously our AquaXP doesnt function like OS X, its just a SHELL, i suppose the blue color is copyrighted too.
and Mac users (some) feel like they are fighting the power and are completly original (even though all OS X's look the same), so they dont like people "playa hating" on them.
that and small penis's.
"Its people who think copying a look is illegal" Go ahead and copy the look and design with the same images and logos of a magazine, a newspaper, and brand, and other stuff. And tell me if you wont get into legal issues? That is illegal, and point. Most dont even own a mac to use the resources, it is very stupid for pc users to think that it is not illegal, and that it is not that bad, many of those people bought the macs because they like the look and thought they were better, if other pc users are getting a part of it, without paying, and just for kicks, it is still illegal. Roms are illegal, copying designs is illegal too, copy a honda, bmw, or any other brand design in the exact way, and you will get a good sue. Must things are copyrighted, and you dont own the rights to use those resources, as all stuff in the commercial world.
It is not bad for you, as a theft or resources, ask a money theft if he got any problem using the money he stole, he enjoyed it in other ways, other way he wont be stealing money. But those that worked hard to get something, beign "stealed" by others, is not that fair, not for them, you are to egocentric just to think in your own benefit, but think of how hard work it was to make os x, and others to be stealing the resources for their use.
Basically it comes down to one main thing: people like that are just idiots. I read about a story of a guy who bought a new Mac and wrote about his experiences with it in an online journal. He would even write down problems he had and got TONS of bad e-mail from Mac users saying he must be an idiot and stuff of the like. Funny thing is he is the CEO of a multi-million dollar software company and knows what he is doing, so that is just Mac users for you. That's just how it is.
And mmr_85, while I have no problem with you at all, I don't care too much for your signature, mainly the comment that says "Movement Against Ignorance." Calling OSX by the update name of Jaguar is much more logical than calling XP by the update of SP1. Jaguar is an actual name and ONLY refers to one thing. SP1 could refer to Windows 2000 SP1, NT4 SP1, XP SP1 and the like. Plus, you can't go out and buy a copy of Windows off of the shelf with SP1 installed. You can however go to the Mac stores and buy OSX Jaguar. When we talk about the software we're running we do say XP with SP1 when necessary but it's makes more sense to always just say Jaguar or OSX Jaguar. Jaguar was touted as a big update all across their site and even inspired a new logo and look for some things. SP1 did not have a whole page remade for it with all of it's new features and software. Nobody made a new SP1 icon set because there was none. There were Jaguar Icon sets with fur and stuff that came about. SP1 is mainly about bug fixes and security flaws that shouldn't exist in the first place while Jaguar not only fixes bugs but mainly just adds support for new things and adds new features to already existing software. SP1 doesn't update your WMP or Windows Movie Maker with new features. Mainly I just disagree with the fact that you think it's ignorant for someone to refer to the latest version of OSX as Jaguar. And saying you should refer to it as OSX or 10.2 instead of Jaguar makes almost less sense. If you refer to it by 10.2 how come no one refers to Windows SP1 by it's version number?
Other than that I have nothing to say, lol.
our skinning community doesnt make a profit out of "aquaing" so thats why it isnt illegal and thats where i disagree. If i can make mario sunshine theme on the desktop - then i can make a mac theme as well.
@mmr: I agree with what you say, but the comparison of a country stealing resources from another country, isnt a good one, since we dont really hurt APPLE in the slightest bit, and we never ever sold jack out of those resources. but i understood your idea in general and your right. 
IMHO id say its more like worshiping and not stealing so basically mac owners should take that as a compliment. Infact our skinning community has made quite a few people get closer to macs and even PURCHASE them - so currently our community is actually more of a necessity.
I completely agree with you that when looking at their side i would freak out as well, being worried that large communities, "import" with no permission GUI from the mac and apply it on the #1 enemy, windows. but that is the real reason why they attack.
Well thats it basically. 
There is a group of Mac users out there that are very cult-like in their love for all things Apple and Macintosh. This Mac *cult* has even been studied by professional psychologists and journalists. It does exist.
It seems pretty strange to me. It's a computer, nothing more, nothing less. Granted, a very nice looking computer with a very nice looking OS, but still just a tool.
Any infringement on the Cult of Mac's territory, copying Aqua's look, complaining about Mac's, disagreeing with Steve Jobs, is seen as a blasphemous act by these people and they go insane with anger.
I have encountered it myself several times and I usually just respond with "I was waiting for some zealot to come out and attack me, and there you are!" and they generally shut up after that.
Please try not to let it bother you, it's nothing you've done personally.
Peace,
Grusic
I agree with Grusic. Mac has for some a cult-like status of coolness and elite-thingie going on. Oh well...
Let's also not forget there's also tons of people who use macs who are very attached (via Airport I guess) to them but don't get off on putting other people down. And there's plenty of crazy f*cked-up pc-users too.
I guess there's plenty of crazy people!
I just read a similar post by one mac user in Spymac. He said the same thing, asking why mac users have to be so elitist and rude. You wont believe the replies. Everyone admitted their guilt and said they didn't care if PC users didn't like that.
But if you head over to the Macintosh Achaia thread in the Arstechnica forum, you'll be surprised. Why? Because you will find there ARE mature and decent mac users too!
By the way I am a mac user too.. 
Taha,
I hope you don't feel my comments were directed at *all* Mac users, because they were not!
I was talking about that core cult-like group.
Peace,
Grusic
Originally posted by Grusic@Jan 31 2003, 08:06 AMTaha,
I hope you don't feel my comments were directed at *all* Mac users, because they were not!
I was talking about that core cult-like group.
Peace,
Grusic
not at all. In fact elitist mac users piss me off more than they piss YOU off. Coz whenever I head over to mac forums to learn stuff I have to put up with their attitude..
however this resources are not obtained by legal means, thats the problem here. Any way, it is soberb of mac users to be bad about it, and it is soberb of pc users to say it is not.
I don't get what the whole fuss is all about... Mac users have nothing to lose by our actions. And if a Mac user really believes his machine is so superior to a PC, he shouldn't care at all about a PC user's effort to make his Windows interface look like a Mac, as it will never get close to the real thing. Besides, the implementation of Aqua interface in Windows only shows our admiration and even acceptance of its superiority.
Maybe the only one who should care a little is Apple; and that only because we use copies of its graphics without permission, but not for profit or to create a rival product or anything that would hurt Apple in any way. On the other hand, the Apple logo came closer to our desktops, along with the temptation to buy a real Mac sometime.
Have a nice day!
Ken
Yeah, I agree about not stealing ACTUAL resources from the OS. But this is emulation!
I know apple didnt lose money off me. When I had to decide between a Mac and PC this summer, I chose PC because Mac hardware was too crappy, not because I could emulate the look on my PC.
and isnt is APPLE who says: "JAGUAR: ITS A WHOLE NEW OS".
xp with SP1 is version 5400 
I am both a Mac user and a PC user.
I personally hate those elitist Mac a$$holes.
As stated above... it's a frikin' tool. They are both COMPUTERS.
They are not the sacred cow or whatever that's gonna make life better.
I use my PC for day-to-day work and for gaming.
I use my Mac for graphics and making short movie clips.
Each has there own use.
As for "stealing" resources... jury is still out for me on that one.
If it weren't for emulation and skinning, I might not have ever looked at a Mac at all.
I now own 3 of them. Two are very old... LC475 and Quadra 900, OS 7.5.5, but they work very well.
The other is a beige PowerPC tower tweaked with an add-on G3 card.
emulation can be considered to be even more illegal than using resources, i dont know, both are illegal, one more than another. But dont be so elitist to say, you are not into something illegal, that is not fair. Accept what you are doing, Mac users are in their right to protest, its not fair to get something for free when you actually paid for it.
Let me rephrase myself. I didnt mean literal emulation like Basilisk, I meant saying, Hey thats a cool color scheme, I think im gonna use it on my PC, its not worth paying $1500 for, but its cool.
Legally, once an idea is out to the public, its fair game (as long as you dont take anything from the actual product). And Apple cant say that their whole OS is intelectual property (like they are trying to) because im sure at least one thing in there is copied from somewhere else.
Its like TV. Someone came out with a special Pancake maker. It was really popular, so another company jumped on board and started making an almost identical product, but cheaper. I bet the people who bought the first one for its originality are pretty pissed, but hey, maybe the cheaper one isnt as well made or has a bad warranty.
And no one is ACTUALLY getting a Mac or OS X. We are making WINDOWS look like it. Its still windows and Macs still have OS X. I mean, how much code do you think OS X "emulation" takes up. 1/10000 of one percent. We paid for 99.99%
We like the look, so we do it on OUR computer. Its our right to do whatever we want to OUR computer, its not hurting ANYONE. If apple can say that its theirs, theirs, theirs, these big (and apple IS big) companies are really taking away our freedom. (not to get political)
I refer you to The Honey Mooners, The Flinstones, and The Jetsons.
"If we cant steal ideas, then where the hell are they suppose to come from!" - The Simpsons
Originally posted by mmr_85@Jan 31 2003, 09:22 PMMac users are in their right to protest, its not fair to get something for free when you actually paid for it.
A few months after I bought my Ericsson T39, the phone company was giving it for free and I was left feeling like a total idiot... but that's different.
What are we getting for free in this case anyway? Icons and graphics, not Mac OS X. Why would Mac users get mad?
a. Because the emulation is so accurate and they feel they should have bought a PC instead of their precious Mac?
b. Because they paid for Mac OS and believe that no one should have an OS using even just the white striped background?
c. Because they feel it's heretic to have the looks of Mac OS in inferior PC systems?
d. Because they are sensitive against any act of "theft", even if it doesn't affect them at all?
e. Because ...
Can't come up with a good reason 
Ken
you are getting very close minded with this. What makes apple OS X so special? Power, DESIGN, and Easy of use. What are we "stealing"? DESIGN, i never said we are copying the full OS. That is a 33% of the main characterisitcs of OS X. The cellular phone situation is different, as you said. It will get eventually cheaper, it will happen with any product, when you see how cheap it was, you will feel bad.
It is your right to do what ever you want, but it comes with resposabilities. You cant take irresponsably, illegaly, and with no persmission those resources and design, and claim it is not bad, totally lega, and that you are on your right. That is 100% childish, not viewing from different points of view. I dont think if you would be a hard core fan of Macs, instead of pc's, will feel that way.
damn i don't understand how "quote" works lol 
Congats, mmr_85 is the Mac cultist of The Week!
For nominations, please make ridiculous comments about being closed minded, when you say the same thing every other Mac Freak says.
Originally posted by mmr_85@Feb 1 2003, 12:26 AM...What are we "stealing"? DESIGN, i never said we are copying the full OS. That is a 33% of the main characterisitcs of OS X. The cellular phone situation is different, as you said. It will get eventually cheaper, it will happen with any product, when you see how cheap it was, you will feel bad.
It is your right to do what ever you want, but it comes with resposabilities. You cant take irresponsably, illegaly, and with no persmission those resources and design, and claim it is not bad, totally lega, and that you are on your right. That is 100% childish, not viewing from different points of view. I dont think if you would be a hard core fan of Macs, instead of pc's, will feel that way.
Excuse me, but it seems that my post was not clear enough, as my english isn't adequate sometimes.
I was trying to compare the situation with my phone and Mac OS. In the first place, other users have -for free- the same prouct I have, while in the second case Aqua skins is just the visible part of the OS, IMO much less than 33% of the overall impression.
You are right about legal stuff... but isn't that only between Apple and the "bad guys"? I'm not judging whether "porting" an interface to another machine is legal or not, but checking how this would affect the USER of the original machine.
And I'm not a hardcore fan of PCs. No way! I visit the Apple.com page almost every day and drool in front of the goodies I can't afford for the moment
Ken
And the analfabet award goes to contrasutra, for his great achievements of claiming stuff without reading the full thread and its posts, proving his lack of knowledge to read understand threads.
"That is 100% childish, not viewing from different points of view"
In my first reply for this thread, I said, that it had 2 points of view, one from the mac users and other from the pc user. You are in the pc user side, so i need to "attack or reply" in the mac point of view.
Please read all my posts before commenting on a specific post of mine.
About the legal stuff, i meant that the means of getting and using that stuff, is not legal at all. But some pc users, claim it is ok, since it doesnt "affects" others, however, we should VIEW from the two points existing here, im not a hard core mac fan, but i know some, and they dislike windows, they have their reasons to not use windows, as many of us hve ours reasons to not use pc's.
Aqua-Soft Forums