Aqua-Soft ForumsAs a Windows and Mac user, I can honesty say that my Windows PC is not my favourite. But if Windows and other Microsoft software are plagued with bugs, why does it continue to dominate the software arena?
Why Does MS Dominate Us?
Keep this thread clean yall! This is a warning. No Flamewars...
"OS Wise"
Because Linux is not that UserFriendly.
Because OSX seems too UserFriendly and you feel limited.
Because Windows just "Feels" right.
I'm going to abstain from the vote because I dont feel that I could express my opinion.
Yes, it is partially because MS has such a huge budget, and yes, it is partially because there arent really any viable alternatives much of the time... If you look at the sheer cost difference between macs and pcs... pcs and therefore ms have an instant advantage. As for linux... still not there yet in my opinion... Maybe in the future, but not yet.
Plus i'm notone of those people who thinks MS is all that evil... just anti-competitive... but then so are apple of that matter.... <_< /shrug
I just use a PC is beacause it is much cheaper for what I want to put in it. I do like the mac's towers, GUI, and the whole style all around that is something the PC doesn't have alot of. Plus that is why we have great sites like aqua soft so we can feed our mac needs on the PC 
.
I haven't voted either.
But doesn't it go back to the old IBM clones? Offices at that time were looking for the cheapest platforms to run Wordperfect, Lotus and such. Windows stepped in and became the defacto OS. This might be oversimplifying to a LARGE extent, but isn't that one of the main reasons?
Agreed ji eun... simple, but it does kind of explain why MS get so dominant 
Well, now that i have both Mac, and Windows Pc, and experienced Linux
I would have to say the Windows XP is the best thing, then Mac, mac is kinda limited in what you can do compared to PC atm mainly becuase of file/game compatibility, but that seams to be changing over time, Linux - Eugh!
I didn't vote either cause the choices aren't what i'd choose. ms dominates because
1. Price. usable new and complete(monitor too) computer for a ****ie user(internet/word processer/music/limited video/games) at 750$ Canadian(not that i'd use that). I've seen mac users argue that point alot, but they're always stretching the truth really really badly. Is there anything that apple produces that is reasonably priced? hmm, not even a mouse.
2. huh, I already gave the only reason. enhh, ok. first mover dominates, price gouging by proxy (higher market share=more companies with higher product rollover/bankruptcy be it game/software/hardware companies=selling below cost for specific products. not technically illegal in most situations), massive research and development resources(ie. profit base) since their already big, now huge market share=economic linkages to many companies=vested interest in supporting their platform, mostly just economies of scale. Things to learn from ms... flood the market!
Oh, don't forget the ghz myth(bigger is better) that works against apple's interest.
I'd guess Linux involves too much time wasted, but i don't even want to start with it, so what do i know(so there's a typical layperson response).
3. Price. Apple needs some freak to donate ? Billions of dollars with the stipulation that it must be used to flood the market with free macs. then they'd get somewhere fast.
On a sidenote, the biggest subsidization of computer growth is illegal music/software/videos/games. if these didn't exist waaay less people would bother with a computer. or they'd buy the even cheaper 500$ can. system.
Seriously, keep this clean. This thread seems like a ticking time bomb (especially with me and steve here).
The simple answer (IMO):
Microsofts products were "good enough". They were in no ways better than the competition (think dos = UNIX - stability, scalability, power, security and Windows = mac - stability, scalability, power, security). So their products were good enough, but their business tactics were extreme.
They made a great move by licensing their products instead of selling them. This way, the controlled the product, and could "revoke" it at anytime, forcing people to upgrade. Along with that, they couldn't stand one bit of competition. I'm reminded of MS's policies about dual booting. YOU COULDN'T SELL WINDOWS IF YOU WOULD PUT ANOTHER OS WITH IT! Dell use to sell linux a while ago (they just started again), but they were forced to stop because MS were going to revoke their license. This doesn't sound very fair to me, especially at this point, when Linux was truly just beginning. This is what killed BeOS. Companies couldn't sell BeOS because they risked losing their Windows Licenses, which they needed.
Microsoft got all its new ideas from other products, and implemented them haphazardly. In fact, IN COURT, Steve Ballmer said that "releasing the Windows source code would be devestating to the entire world. There are so many major bugs that can't be revealed". Its the truth, admitted by the CEO, Windows is poorly built.
That's basically it. A "workable" product mixed with bad business tactics, and you get market dominance. Now, all MS has to do is try to retain its power, which isn't tecnically hard. Just don't give people enough reasons to switch. You don't have to be better, just not absolutely horrible. Oh, and FUD. I love how they call linux "communistic" and it will hurt american economy, WHILE THE SHIP THEIR WORK OVERSEAS!
Now though, the competition has gotten so much better, and is actually adhering to standards, so MS is getting scared. Who knows what the outcome will be. I dont think it's in MS's favor though.
Just for the record: Linux IMO is much easier to use for the AVERAGE USER. If the distro comes preinstalled, it requires no more work than Windows to begin using. EVERYTHING can be done via a gui, and the apps are usually awesome. Think Mozilla, Evolution, OpenOffice, Abiword, etc. Of course, most people are use to windows, so that has to be overcome. But for someone who has never used a computer, linux is easier.
Where linux is harder is in the "middle user" category, which most of Aqua-Soft is. We know how to use computers, but we aren't experts. Windows doesn't give you too much control, without having to hack DLLs and crap like that, so you simply haven't been exposed to "advanced" things like scripting and the CLI. These are staples in unix. There is also the mindset that the MS way is automatically best. This simply isn't true.
Can anyone say "tangent"?
Oh, and Apple tries to be too independant. I know its cool being different, but consumers don't like that. This isn't a bad thing, but not good for business.
For once, contra, I agree with everything you said there. 
Good post.
I would like to say, however, that MS products aren't all bad. Don't get me wrong, linux probably is the future, and standards definitely are, but I think that there's a fair way to go yet before linux really does become "mainstream", and this is not for any failing in linux, but more for the fact that there are still so many users out there who have "just enough" knowledge to get by on a PC - those who are of the ilk that thought you pointed a mouse at the screen to use it... >.<
With regards to the business tactics, yes, they're shady, yes, they're wrong, but I don't know of many businesses who do everything by the book...
Oh, and I don't want people to start replying with lists of companies who they think do. There's no way you can truly know if a company is honest, unless they publish everything that they have ever done in their operating lifetime, which, to the best of my knowledge, no company does... Who here knows of companies where every single member of staff's every action is made public?
I agree with Contra and Stevie...
Linux will be the future, People will realize how much Windows sucks most of the time.
Microsoft has some great products.
1. Office... I like um, but Open Office is free. I hate Office 2000.
2. Windows 2000, gott hand it to um, almost as fast as Linux. ("can he say that?!?")
Thats almost all the onse i can think of.
Lets think about Linux...
1. Fast
2. Reliable
3. STABLE
4. Powerful
5. With the right packages installed, It can do EVERYTHING and more that Windows does.
6. FREE (Isn't reason enough?)
7. I can Distribute it to ALL my freind with out a law suit.
8. Can do the good-looking-Mutiple-desktop-thing-we-like
9. Faster screen compositing.\
10. "/mnt/cdrom" ect, why be all like "C:\" when "/" is SO much easier.
11. F*cking awesome hardware support, havent needed drivers for any of my sh*t
The reason is simple. Macintosh lost their popularity around the time when Windows was thriving. Thats when the majority of people got their pc's. So they have their nice little computers now, but they are completely oblivious to the nice things happening in the Mac world. They dont care enough to take a look and see all the cool stuff that Macintosh offers. They even think "Mac sucks" because they have it in their minds that they do. They just havent taken a look. I always try to get people to open their eyes about this kind of thing.
/ about *nix...
I have tried Linux in the past and it is definately not for anyone who doesnt know their computer inside and out. I got it installed, but the whole thing is so complicated!!! I could not figure out some stuff. And I also personally dont like the look of linux either... lol id prefer luna over the linux skins.
Josh
Linux won't be mainstream until it's "dumbed down" enough for a complete computer novice to install it and it "just work".
And the question is not 'Why does MS dominate us?' it's; 'Why do we allow MS to dominate us?'.
Frankly, I didn't know that Bill and Steve where into BSDM. Those must be some wild parties.
And the question is not 'Why does MS dominate us?' it's; 'Why do we allow MS to dominate us?'.
toushe!
Good question but u hv to accept that WE r not why MS dominates, it`s the regular Joe User who doesn`t know much (anything) about comps and he/she doesn`t give a ****** about the stuff we want (advanced options and configs), he/she just wan`t a CHEAP (Win/PC) and WORKING (OS X/Mac better that Win/Intel, but pricier (see CHEAP )) computer. WE ARE A MINORITY 
Originally posted by Unbeliever@Dec 11 2003, 01:05 AMtoushe!
Good question but u hv to accept that WE r not why MS dominates, it`s the regular Joe User who doesn`t know much (anything) about comps and he/she doesn`t give a ****** about the stuff we want (advanced options and configs), he/she just wan`t a CHEAP (Win/PC) and WORKING (OS X/Mac better that Win/Intel, but pricier (see CHEAP
That's not the attitude!
Fight the power! :rule:
And yes.. The average joe user needs a good kick up the unmentionables.
Originally posted by ihartmacz@Dec 10 2003, 11:46 PM"/mnt/cdrom" ect, why be all like "C:\" when "/" is SO much easier.
that should be a tshirt.
gotta say this is the first thread that has made me think about trying linux.
maybe
The reason that Windows controls the market isn't because it's user friendly or what-not, it's because Microsoft was smart in their business moves. They were competitive and took the market before any real competition could be established, and their product evolved to suit their widening amount of consumers. As the number of consumers increases, the need for usability and simplicity also increases, so as to remain the most "user friendly" operating system on the market.
Since statistically speaking most people run Windows (this is mainly due to Apple's monopoly over the Apple industry, so while only Apple produces Apple computers and forces you to pay a particularly hefty price for their product with little options, PCs sold with Windows can be purchased from an almost infinite array of possible retailers at all different prices), Windows becomes the prevailing OS. People are essentially forced into getting the operating system because the market is dominated by Windows.
There is the possibility of choice, however, but to a person who wants to make an investment in a computer, they want to ensure that they get the most out of their money. If I had never used a Mac before and had been a Windows user all my life, I know I wouldn't be too interested in purchasing a Mac for almost double the price of a normal PC without knowing full well that I would be getting more for my money.
As far as Linux is concerned, I think most people who are interested in using it can do so, and simply setup a dual boot system on their PC. However, it's much too complicated an operating system for a normal user (who basically just uses a computer for e-mail, word-processing, and maybe scanning/printing photos).
Until more people become aware of Mac and competition grows, Linux dumbs down it's OS, and Microsoft is forced to use less anti-competitive business tactics, I thnik Windows will remain the number one operating system, despite its short-comings.
Most of the posts here have hit the nail on the head:
1. Ruthless business practices (which i don't mind). Businesses are in competition for your money, less competition = less distractions for the masses = more money in the bank. MS smash! :who's your daddy:
2. Imitation (is the best form of flattery). Copy whatever you can from the competition, then they can't stand apart from you.
3. Buy the competition, if you can't beat them, join 'em. Or in MS's case "BUY and INTEGRATE".
My mentor who got me into computers recently quit using linux, he's excuse: "i'm tired" Try using an Ipod with 'nix.
p.s
most linux users come off as elitist, which really throws off most ppl. Saying crap like "only ignorant ppl use windoze or winblows, blah blah blah" Try using that in a sales pitch and see how far that gets you.
Originally posted by RoyalPain@Dec 11 2003, 12:12 PMMost of the posts here have hit the nail on the head:
1. Ruthless business practices (which i don't mind). Businesses are in competition for your money, less competition = less distractions for the masses = more money in the bank. MS smash! :who's your daddy:
2. Imitation (is the best form of flattery). Copy whatever you can from the competition, then they can't stand apart from you.
3. Buy the competition, if you can't beat them, join 'em. Or in MS's case "BUY and INTEGRATE".
My mentor who got me into computers recently quit using linux, he's excuse: "i'm tired" Try using an Ipod with 'nix.
p.s
most linux users come off as elitist, which really throws off most ppl. Saying crap like "only ignorant ppl use windoze or winblows, blah blah blah" Try using that in a sales pitch and see how far that gets you.
That's possibly the most accurate explanation of the situation I've heard.
I feel exactly the same.
MS continues to dominate because people fear change or don't know better stuff is out there. A lot of people out there also spread a lot of FUD about Linux and Apple.
PS. People are cheap and want something for nothing or next to nothing. There is no such thing as cheap "and" good hardware.