*prays to Y*
Someone please release an OpenGL dock!
Although you need decent hardware this would solve your CPU usage jumping to 100% when you do anything, transitions would be A LOT smoother and less intensive, and generally your Dock would be more responsive and cleaner to look at.
Please please please!
OSX realized this someone take the initiative!!!
I've dabbeled in OpenGL coding with C++ I can point you to some excellent resources if any team is interested...
Docks would be better in DirectX, I would think.
Moby explained to me that it would not use any cpu if we went the DX way. And since DX9, Moby has been experimenting with it. (I think Yz is, too)
OpenGL is a good idea though, but Moby says its not worth it.
OpenGL could be a good idea. i've got one running in visual basic. As soon as I can get the Aqua Controls working I think I will release it as an open source dock. Just don't get your hopes up.
OpenGL is always faster on cards that support it; ex. nVidia cards. DirectX is better for a wider support base, but I don't think it's faster.
I've run some pretty intesive DirectX apps and OpenGL apps and OpenGL always uses less CPU cycles...
They both run pretty fast but OpenGL doesn't seem to stress your processor nearly as much. That and I've found it does a better job at smoothing textures and generally produces higher quality images.
Maybe it's just my system... but I'd be really interested to see someone implement it and benchmark it both ways...
I dont know much about OpenGL and DirectX support, but what I can say is that if apple used openGL we should use openGL. Apple's dock runs flawlessly on a machine that much worse than mine. There is little to no cpu usage when using the dock. I say use what apple used. They know how to make a good dock. See for yourself.
Hi,
I would say use OpenGL also.
From what I understand, DX is very convoluted and most developers do not enjoy coding for it.
Peace,
Grusic
I've only dabbeled in OpenGL coding but to my understanding;
-OpenGL is programming straight to your video card, this unloads over 90% of the strain off your CPU
-DirectX is an API to allow older hardware to use newer technology, your CPU takes the overhead
Apple renders their whole GUI in OpenGL and it's 10x as smooth as any Windows box. The Genie effect is a good example of this. OpenGL renders vector bitmaps which are translated in realtime, which looks amazing when playing a movie as it actually continues to play through the effect.
[Edit]
Unless you have one of the new Raedon cards I can't see you getting better performance in DirectX over OpenGL.
[/Edit]
then go with OpenGL !! 
I think people here aren't being very objective when talking about OSX effects...
The truth is, the OSX dock runs at a NOTICABLY lower framerate than objectdock does on my machine (much smoother)...
Also, i can't understand why everyone keep on drooling about the genie effect... it REALLY isn't that smooth...
DISCLAIMER: I don't own a mac and my observations are based on playing with an ibook, a powerbook and a desktop g4 in an apple store while they were holding a press conference...
Orcinus
BTW: OpenGL dock sounds nice... but everyone's just talking about it and noone's doing anything...
BTW2: windows longhorn should supposedly be using a fully gfx card accelerated gui, shouldn't it?
Edit: BTW3: One thing i REALLY find annoying about OSX is the sluggishness... Apple does a good job of covering it up by extensive use of neat animations etc. but it still shows... try switching a view (i.e. from icons to list) in finder, then do the same thing in windows... the speed difference is obvious!
Well one thing for certain is that with a decent gfx card, OGL kicks the other systems out the window in both speed and accuracy of drawing. An OGL dock would (imho) be very smooth and fast on many of our machines.
Those without adequate OGL performance will still have the benefit of the many existing docks which do still run very nicely, albeit with a heavy CPU load. I just think it would be nice to have the OGL option as a setup parameter.
Moby has said that he can't make opengl output direct to the kind of window he has to use in order to make it float on the desktop with alpha blending when he uses opengl. That is without doing it someway which would slow it down rather than speed it up. Forgot the details of that.
He had been waiting for directx9.
I've never tried to create a window w/o a titlebar before but I would say Moby's idea is probably correct.
I don't see how alpha-blending would slow the system down though... the code to do it is tiny and the effect is accelerated (per pixel alpha blending) by the nVidia Detonator drivers. I have nView set to make my all my windows translucent when I drag them, and I can drag a full screen window around without any hiccups.
To my understanding Raedon cards have retarded fill rates so they can achieve this effect really well in DirectX (which is supported over OpenGL by ATI) but for most other cards it's a lot worse because your CPU takes all the heat.
I'm going to go play with some C++ and OpenGL and try to spawn a basic dockbar...
hi,
the most cpu-time consuming part of the docks is certainly the magnification-effect. the question is not whether to use OpenGL or DX. Both can do that (plus other effects) in hardware without CPU-Usage. The point really is, which functions the APIs (OpenGL or DX) and drivers provide to tranfer the graphics data from video-memory to system-memory. normally, OpenGL and DX render to the primary framebuffer in the videocard. And that is what you see on your desktop. But since both do not provide functions to render to these transparent windows needed for the docks, you have to find a way to quickly transfer the rendered frames to your system-memory and then display it onscreen. so, the bottleneck is this transfer.
i will try to implement this and see if it is worse to do it for the dock.
have fun,
moby
Originally posted by Michael14@Dec 23 2002, 07:04 PMOpenGL could be a good idea. i've got one running in visual basic. As soon as I can get the Aqua Controls working I think I will release it as an open source dock. Just don't get your hopes up.
you don't have to wait for the aqua controls to work. Just do it !!
this is all very interesting.. i love reading these type of threads... well.. it would be interesting to see a opengl dock.. or maybe just a tiny one to see if it even can be done (ofcourse it can anything is possible.. hehe).. lets see what teh future holds for us 
-bolero
I'd have to say it would be a better Idea to make DX9 and an OpenGL docks to test and compare...
PS:
I'm sick and tired of this CPU useage thing with the docks. can somebody PLEASE release an OpenGL or DX9 dock?!? I have a GF4 Ti 4200 and I want the dock to use THAT.
As it has been said, NUMEROUS times before, even the dock in OS X uses alot of CPU.
I heard that the new ObjectDock .85 uses little or no CPU and less ram
And so what if the OSX dock uses CPU, doesnt mean ours has to; copy the the good things and fix the mistakes!
Then, if a dok was opengl or direct 8/9 enabled-iy would swork on not only 2000/XP but in 98/98SE and mee as well.
Originally posted by Duckie@Jan 2 2003, 07:06 PMAs it has been said, NUMEROUS times before, even the dock in OS X uses alot of CPU.
yes, but it does not mean we have to. most apple users are not hardcore ppl like us. they don't notice it, hence apple can get away with it with no complaints. I must say that I'm not asking for an OpenGL or DX9 dock cuz my PC is weak, right? I'm only asking for one that will use it the right way.
Right?
Is anyone making one right now? I've downloaded OD v.85 and its still the same crap.
anyone?
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