Originally posted by godpunk@Oct 5 2003, 08:49 PM
Of course it isn't new- OS X had that since it's public beta in 2000.

At least we know who the real innovator is

-godpunk

Must I remind you of the XEROX "incident"?

#62289

but you can find in some WEIRD places on the net that OS, i mean warez and those stuff... that`s why i asked coz .... who knows... i haven`t download that OS or something similar. but i was just wondering if tha OS in those places are the real Longhorn and those stuff.... well.. so think we gotta wait untill the right time comes out... bye

#62290

I thought Longhorn ran on new hardware that was not built on Legacy. If this is true how in the hell could anyone be beta testing this? Shenanigans I say.

:canadian:

#62295

Wether they add it or not, it'll still be designed by microsoft so we're safe in assuming it won't be very soothing to the eyes.

#62311

Originally posted by contrasutra@Oct 5 2003, 08:14 PM
Must I remind you of the XEROX "incident"?

Yes, Apple ripped off Xerox. But Microsoft ripped off the people who ripped off the idea in the first place. How's that for originality?

And 2005 is a hell of a long time to wait for a new OS. Oh well...I'm sure they'll keep you all occupied with installing security patches in the meantime!

BTW, is Longhorn going to be taking any noteworty leap ahead of XP, i.e. using a Unix and/or BSD base system? Personally, I think the registry should go, but that's just me.

-godpunk

#62313

Actually, now that you mention it, Microsoft recently licensed UNIX from SCO, and said they will be incorporating some UNIX features into Windows (they also bought a license because they were violating some patents).

Now, they aren't replacing the NT kernel anytime soon, so dont expect something like OSX.

WinFS also looks very cool.

And you're right, MS completley ripped off Apple. But thats why I dont believe in Intellectual Property (at least how the laws are today). How can you own the idea to a GUI or an animation? Its just a natural evolution, not a brilliant revelation.

Isn't it fun to bash Microsoft. My only problem with Longhorn is that its going to require waaay too high system requirements. Hell, OSX can run only in commandline, and of course Linux and BSD run great on that P1.

Its MS trying to drive people to buy bigger and more expensive computers, when they simply don't need it. theory> :nerd:

#62317

What people seem to forget is that, at the end of the day neither Apple nor Microsoft are truly innovative, in the grand scheme of things... Babbage, Von Neuman, Turing, IBM, Xerox. Need I say more?

As for you people who're running the "beta"... No, you aren't. There's no Longhorn beta yet. There are leaked Alphas but none of these contain the DirectX extensions to the UI - the only way to get the DirectX enabled UI is to go to Lab 6 and get a copy of their build of Longhorn - Aero isn't integrated into the main compilations yet.

Also, Microsoft haven't decided what graphical effects they want to enable in the final release - hell, they demoed a UI made of spinning windows, but I doubt they'll include that in the final release...

Finally - Microsoft have said that they will have 3 tiers of the "Longhorn Experience":

Tier 0 - No fancy hardware required. No DX9 enhanced UI. Classic mode interface. Minimalist. It'll run (apparently) on the same hardware as Win XP.
Tier 1 - DX7 acceleration. Some pretty features, but nothing shocking to Mac fans.
Tier 2 - DX9 acceleration. Lots of fancy features. Support for incredibly high resolutions natively. Based on what I've seen, the "Tier 2 Longhorn Experience" will make OSX's rendering capabilities and Quartz Extreme look like a child's crayon scribbles.

Oh, and Longhorn will be release late 2005/early 2006. Apparently. But it'll be worth it.

#62360

Its MS trying to drive people to buy bigger and more expensive computers, when they simply don't need it. theory>

Well, I agree with you on the part that "buy bigger and more expensive computers, when they simply don't need it" part, but how much power are we talking about. Is it a minimum P4 or Athlon XP? 128 or 256 MB of RAM? 1 or 10 GB of Hard Disk space? Or even a manditory DVD-ROM drive? Either way, I think that M$ finaly realized at the production of XP that they cannot support the older computers anymore. I mean, needing support for a DOS game is really unessesary. If a person is going to buy a better computer and still has DOS games, it would be safe to say that they will keep the old computer. I believe that M$ needs to get rid of the DOS emulation in Windows. It brings too many flaws and security issues. My friend and I found literalt over 20 ways to hack into a Win2K Pro client on a Win2K Server using only DOS commands. Even if the admin disables the DOS command then all you have to do is know BASIC and run DOS through there. It an old security flaw that M$ has yet to still fix. I really don't think that Windows needs the support from DOS anymore with all the API's and other methods of doing certain tasks aleady in Windows. Maybe I'm missing something, but that is a big problem that I see in Windows and needs to be fixed soon.

#62393

I heard they're integrating MSN features into longhorn.

#62396

Originally posted by wizard@Oct 6 2003, 03:21 PM
Well, I agree with you on the part that "buy bigger and more expensive computers, when they simply don't need it" part, but how much power are we talking about. Is it a minimum P4 or Athlon XP? 128 or 256 MB of RAM? 1 or 10 GB of Hard Disk space? Or even a manditory DVD-ROM drive? Either way, I think that M$ finaly realized at the production of XP that they cannot support the older computers anymore. I mean, needing support for a DOS game is really unessesary. If a person is going to buy a better computer and still has DOS games, it would be safe to say that they will keep the old computer. I believe that M$ needs to get rid of the DOS emulation in Windows. It brings too many flaws and security issues. My friend and I found literalt over 20 ways to hack into a Win2K Pro client on a Win2K Server using only DOS commands. Even if the admin disables the DOS command then all you have to do is know BASIC and run DOS through there. It an old security flaw that M$ has yet to still fix. I really don't think that Windows needs the support from DOS anymore with all the API's and other methods of doing certain tasks aleady in Windows. Maybe I'm missing something, but that is a big problem that I see in Windows and needs to be fixed soon.

You are missing something - NT operating systems don't have "DOS". "DOS" (or Disk Operating System) is an OS in it's own right. You're getting confused with NT/2000/XP/2003's command line. The purpose of the command line, as contra can likely testify, is that 99% of system admin tasks can be performed much more quickly using a Command Line Interface (CLI) - but not to the same extent as in Linux/Unix, I admit. The command prompt, or CLI, isn't there for DOS emulation, in fact, I'd be very surprised if you can even run any DOS games or applications in it.

I'd be curious to know how you were running your Win2K boxes, and how well they'd been secured... On a properly configured box, Win2K can be nearly as secure as Linux/Unix (2K3 can be more secure - I know you want ot argue, contra, but resist - I'm just making a point).

Unless the boxes were set up by people who know what they're doing - and I don't mean any offence by this - which most people in the wide world (including lots of people on this very forum) don't, then you'd be able to break into a 2K box. It is, as they say, childs play.

The trick is knowing the difference between a "secured" system which you can get into and an "unsecured" system which you can get into. I have the feeling your experience was the latter.

With regards to hardware requirements, like I said, the bare minimum for Longhorn will be somewhere around the same level as XP. If you want the minimum for a "Tier 2" experience, however, you'll need something in the region of 1GHz processor with DX9 graphics card and 512Mb RAM...

#62418

Originally posted by Caser@Oct 6 2003, 03:28 PM
I heard they're integrating MSN features into longhorn.

Like what?

I doubt they will integrate them, per se, but they may well do the usual optional advertisements trick....

#62420

Stevie is absolutley right.

There is no DOS in NT like there is in Win9x.

There are actually two different command lines in NT though.

One is: "cmd". This is just a command interpreter for NT systems.

The other is: "command.com", this is actually a DOS emulator of sorts inside NT. Run this if you need DOS emulation. It works decent.

Stevie is also right on securing systems. Running an unpatched version of RedHat 7.3 will get you hacked as well. Windows(NT) can be secured pretty well, if you spend the time.

#62425

Originally posted by contrasutra@Oct 6 2003, 05:20 PM
Stevie is absolutley right.

[...]

Stevie is also right[...]

I never thought I'd hear that once, let alone twice from you contra

I must admit I'd forgotten about command.com - it's so long since I used it :shy:

#62427