Unity, Collaboration, Versioning

Ok, we all love this Mac OSX look, its a fact - we been skinning and emulating it since day one . We got

a lot of talented artists and developers that has done realizations of the OSX user-interface to the PC platform, and

we got thousands of users that uses their highly appreciated work :own: . It's a perfect world this far - but, there's a big problem:

There is no structure, logic, collaboration in all these hundreds projects out there - its a jungle. And this is a problem

for both artists/developers and users.

:nuts: PROBLEM 1:

We got 1 guy making a skin for an app, and at the same time another guy on the

same app - in parallell. They release their masterpieces in two different forums (of

the 30 osx forums out on the internet). This is bad because not all the users will get

the opportunity to try the 2 different projects because the are released in two different

places. Ok, some users are lucky to be members/visitors of both those forums so they

will be aware of the 2 releases - but for those who are not...

:smartass: SOLUTION 1:

Wouldnt it be great to have ONE main forum that the other 29 relies on? I mean we could

have 1 forum that references everything on the subforums (where files are hosted). And the

subforums would report to the main forum as soon as a project is released. Well this is something

like were having here right now in this forum - but it needs a better structure and architecture.

The "Release/distribution"-step must be better.

:nuts: PROBLEM 2:

In problem 1 we saw to different projects working on the same "realization" (e.g making a skin for trillian)

and realising it independently. Another problem with that is that 1. how will the user know wich one is the best,

2. what if one the "realization" is better than the other. 3. What if both projects have different "good" features?

:smartass: SOLUTION 2:

The developers/Artists should collaborate och work together on their project and possibly merge the 2 projects

into 1. This will save time and will result in a better product becasuse the best of both projects will be delivered.

This will also eliminate the problem with "development branching" (i.e 2 projects start at the same spot, but walking

theire own way (in parallel), implementing different features). For example. We got this guy "OSX_Lover" that makes

this incredible skin for Trillian. Its awesame because nobody has done it before. But users realize it has some bugs

or lack of features. Now 2 different guys make their own modifications based on the first skin. The new skins

will be called "MagicT's Trillian skin (based on OSX-lovers)" and "AquaBoys skin for trillian (with permission from OSX-lover)".

this is not good, not good at all. We should collaborate and make "OSX_lovers skin v1.3 (modified buy MagicT and AquaBoy)" instead.

:nuts: PROBLEM 3:

In the solution above we talked about modifications and updates of existing stuff (e.g a skin for Trillian). We all know

this happens all the time: One good developer makes the first version, and later maybe makes an update, but then gets bored

of that application and starts making a skin for another application (in another project), but thats okay because theres another

entuthiastic developer that has will and time to continue on the "Trillian skin project". The fact is : During the lifetime of a skin

there're many modifications and updates made. The problem is nobody know wich one is the latest. Only the ones

that visits everyday the 30 forums will know. An example: I go on hollidays for 1 month and when i get back i see

2 new different uppdates of the trillian skin, Great! But i don't know wich one is the lates because i dont see any

version number only the name is the same, but that wont help.

:smartass: SOLUTION 3:

We need to version each release so that the user will know wich one is the latest, but also helps

for a more concrete referencing of projects.

These ways are very common to every artist/developer that has worked on a professional project before

and its a good practice to work like this. We should take this into our "OSX-PC community".

Finally the conclusion is:

Developers: Will save time. and have the possibility the deliver the best result.

Users: Will not get confused and will always have the best.

#52663

Hmmm,

nice suggestion pal, I hope our guys here will open their eyes and start planning something

#52680

About the problem number 3...

It would be extremely useful to create a list with all available skins/programs for every category (visual styles, itunes clones, trillian skins, etc.), along with the date released. Something like:

Aqua visual styles

---------------------

osx-aqua by aaa (5/8/03)

winaqua by bbb (2/3/03)

...

AquaSoft could easily accomplish an index like that, by splitting it into categories and have each admin/mod or other members take care of one (categories like "docks", "media players", etc). Developers can inform the specific member about a new release, and update the list accordingly.

This way, all members will easily find new releases, as well as variations of skins/apps/whatever they can try, all in one place. And AquaSoft will contain something more, apart from the forums.

Have a nice day!

Ken

#52693

This is the third thread with this suggestion of collaboration.

Does anyone see the irony in repeating complaints about repetition? Maybe its just me.

We get it. But developers wont always work together, just look at open source. How many Window Managers do we have? People have their own opinion and vision, and some people do it simply for the challenge.

#52697

I, for one, agree with contrasutra completely, but with another topic about collaboration might suggest that maybe a site could help get it started. I for one would love to see this happen here.

Just my thoughts,

FatAxl :own:

#52707

What happen to our .mac??? Is the project still on??

That would be our starting point..

#52732

In that case our starting point would be very much ... non existant

#52747

Well at least the developer could choose to work with someone else - he doesnt have to but can.

There still would be a great benefit for the user, as indicated. Some time ago I sugegsted a "projects" page dealing with similar aspects. I still think we need to et organized, but hey, maybe I'm totally wrong.

I do think it would keep ****ie questions at a minimum, but who knows?

Have fun,

McTrinsic

#52752

It probably would help keep ****ie questions down, but notice that this thread and a lot of similar ones have been started by ****ies.

I'm not trying to be funny here but most of the "list all skins" or "list all mods" posts seem to be from those that have just signed up and don't want to use the boards search function. Is this us not being helpful or people not putting the effort into searching?

Anyway, it's a nice idea. But possibly a bit much for a first post?

#52769

Originally posted by Ludge@Sep 3 2003, 11:05 AM

It probably would help keep ****ie questions down, but notice that this thread and a lot of similar ones have been started by ****ies.

I'm not trying to be funny here but most of the "list all skins" or "list all mods" posts seem to be from those that have just signed up and don't want to use the boards search function. Is this us not being helpful or people not putting the effort into searching?

Anyway, it's a nice idea. But possibly a bit much for a first post?

Well first of all, just cuz this my very first post in this forum doesnt mean I'm a ****ie, and this is for all other "****iez" here. I been here since day one when we only had objectbar and desktopX(for the dock) on win2000 back in 2000 (3 years ago when this was the only dedicated website) to emulate the wonderful GUI of OSX. But let's not fuzz about sh## like this . What i'm trying to say is that it wont only help out ****ies to find the right stuff but also the so called "PRO" members/users that doesnt visit all the OSX-forums 3 times a day to check for updates and releases. I feel im beeing one of those and i'm sure we got alot members that just dont have the time, the capacity, etc to be "active".

Maybe the goal is too high, but why dont start small :canadian: . I mean, I think Ken's suggestion is very cool. To have this "reference list/index" to list every/most

stuff that there is to get. I dont think its too difficult to implement this in this

website. What you guys say?

I really hope we get somewhere with this post, and not only ignore it because

it's a "****ies" first post here .

#52819

We need to version each release so that the user will know wich one is the latest, but also helps

for a more concrete referencing of projects.

that's a great idea..

oh.. i already do it..

more people should..

and they should put the version number in the name of the skin..

not just hidden somewhere in the readme file..

as for artists/developers collaborating..

i would love to see this..

the only problem.. (i use myself as an example)

is that, with my skin.. (MSStyles) X-Port/

i have created it from scratch..

no use of StyleBuilder.

so, my skin does allot of things, others don't.

and it does them in ways that are difficult to duplicate in Stylebuilder.

so, as you can probobly see.. it's hard for ME, and the MASS of "skinners"

that create some wonderful skins, to collaborate. because, it appears that there is no one left creating skins the old way. everyone uses stylebuilder..

i think, the way someone creates a skin, can cause problems with how well they can collaborate.. i could switch to stylebuilder. but i have chosen not to.

i've been working on skins since before stylebuilder came out, and have gotten.. "comfortable" with the way i've been doing it.

another problem. is that the end users have MANY different tastes.

let's say user 1, 2 & 3 download my skin.

user 1, who has a mac. loves it.

user 2, who does not, wants my scroll bars to look more like skinner2's skin

and user 3, want's it to have buttons that have never appeared in OS X, that he saw in skinner3's skin.

now.. how can i appease those 3 users?

i can't.. i just go for user1 (cause i'm a purist, sorry)

user 2 & 3 download someone elses skin. but then complain that they don't have what my skin had..

i think that if there was a unified way to interchange skins.. then this could be solved easier..

but then again, you have those skinners, that have been doing it a while, and those that just started yesterday.. so this causes problems..

-just my opinions-

#52851