If M$ used Firefox...

People complain a lot about how terrible IE is, in that it renders everything in its own bizarre way making things hell for developers.

But what if Internet Explorer 8 was a fork of Firefox? Sure it would make everything better for developers, but I'm certain it would still kick up a fuss, in that all the Firefox and Open Source fans would accuse Microsoft for ripping off FF, as I'm sure they would leave minimal evidence within the software that it was a fork of FF, and i highly doubt they would credit them in any way. The average n00b would have no idea that M$ didn't make the product.

What do you think would happen if IE 8 was a fork of IE? I think in the long shot it would be good for the internet's users and developers, but hell for Firefox & open source fans. It would be nice if perhaps, Windows came with Firefox and IE was discontinued, but that's not happening anytime soon.

wuzzie

#500999

I think IE8 is step in a right direction by MS, judging by what they have announced. IE so far have preferred not complying with standards, making us developers go through hell doing workarounds and css hacks, just because it won't render things the way we have learned.

I don't think OSS community would cry foul, if MS decides to follow firefox for IE8. Unless, MS does complete plagiarism. Once all the browsers start rendering given page as per standards, then the only race would be for speed, application memory footprint and features. In either way, it's all good for us users.... and not just noobs, all users (and developers alike).

#501000

IE8 is a good step, but I'd like to see being asked what browser I want when I start up my PC for the first time.

Like, How do you want to use the internet:

IE8, The latest in Microsoft's series of popular browsers, this is integrated into windows for speed of startup and execution. It's run in a virtual workspace to fight against viruses.

Firefox, The award winning browser from Mozilla, this is highly extendible for those with the time to customise it, and very fast, secure, and powerful for those who don't.

Opera, Very fast, and very fully featured, but with a weaker interface and less customisability.

Safari, for those of you who wish to make our OS look like another (>_>

etc.

That would be my choice, but how likely is that to happen?

#501008

IE8 is a good step, but I'd like to see being asked what browser I want when I start up my PC for the first time.

Like, How do you want to use the internet:

That would be my choice, but how likely is that to happen?

My father-in-law just bought a new laptop, Vista Home (which is the most awkward OS I've ever used) and it came with FF preinstalled, but with Google toolbar attached. With FF on the desktop it kinda through me a curve ball I was really surprised to see it there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Apple don't ask what browser you'd like to use to connect to the internet, they automatically assume your going to use Safari, just like MS and IE, so we need a consistent standard between the 2 OS.

There needs to be a better customer education as to the choices everyone has. MS need to their finger out and fix things faster, if that means making things more open source so be it, they need to stop sticking their heads in the sand and say it will be fixed when we're ready.

I would prefer if FF and IE stay away from each other, this offers more competition and allows developers to push each other further.

#501022

I would prefer if FF and IE stay away from each other, this offers more competition and allows developers to push each other further.

Actually, I would prefer if they stay away in terms of features... not the standards. When I'm developing a site, I have all three browsers open for testing (IE6, Safari and FF) and IE7 on another desktop. Just to make sure, my design remain consistent in all. Sometimes I don't have to open Safari because FF and Safari render pages almost identical. So it actually boils down IE being nasty child. Once I see the anomaly in IE then my workaround part takes place (which can go from 5 mins to 5 hours to fix things ).

So, like millions of developers worldwide... I scream the same thing.... "STANDARDS, you stupid microsoft developers.. it's called STANDARDS!!"

Fight for features and speed of your application, but follow the god damned standards.

#501023

IE8 is a good step, but I'd like to see being asked what browser I want when I start up my PC for the first time.

Like, How do you want to use the internet:

What's the advantage in that over letting the user simply download whatever he wants? Once they give choices like that, they can't limit it to browsers...People would be getting stuff like "What Image Editor do you want to use? MS Paint, GIMP or Paint.NET", and stuff like that..

Opera, Very fast, and very fully featured, but with a weaker interface and less customisability.

Weak interface? Oh please...:mad:

#501028

Opera, Very fast, and very fully featured, but with a weaker interface and less customisability.

Interface is ok, it just renders some things strangely

#501032

Eh, it's good, but weaker than the rest, as far as I can see.

And what's the advantage?

Let's see, most people don't know that other browsers exist?

One person in my school, when he heard me talk about FF, asked 'Can you get the google on that?' and 'What's it's equivalent of youtube?'

People simply don't know about them.

#501036

And what's the advantage?

Let's see, most people don't know that other browsers exist?

One person in my school, when he heard me talk about FF, asked 'Can you get the google on that?' and 'What's it's equivalent of youtube?'

People simply don't know about them.

Such people need to have the internet kept off-limits to them.

And what exactly do you mean by a "weak" interface?

#501038

I agree with iGo. IE does render strangely and differs from others. They should go with the standards and not the features. I mean features are upto them to put.

And i think IE8 is good step for MS.

#501039

I agree, apparently it's illegal or something to take their PCs away.

It just doesn't seem as intuitive. I spent... like... months without knowing of the sidebar's existence, for example.

#501042

Mac+Safari+SafariStand+acidsearch= the best.

Mac+ Firefox= slow. very.

Windows+Safari=Ugly theme clash and bug ridden.

Windows+Firefox=Simple, good, reliable.

Windows+ customised firefox+ tab sidebar+ tab x+ compact menu+ Customised search engines= good as safari, but more to get it right.

Opera= limiting.

Windows+Internet Explorer= why go there?

#501063

personally I don't like the way safari looks. Firefos is reasonably useable. IE is, well... it suits its purpose to a point. It was the first browser to get me on the web, that's for sure. But back then it was a little harder to install on Windoze 3.11.

#501093

IE has one purpose: Downloading firefox (or opera, safari, etc). Thats it.

#501098

IE has one purpose: Downloading firefox (or opera, safari, etc). Thats it.

#501102

Ha, I should have done my research before I posted this, I didn't know about the IE8 standards mode. =P

I guess that means less hassle for web developers in about 10 years.

#501313

Oh yeah, but you have to ENABLE that, as far as I've heard.

Why, please god tell me why, it is not just enabled as standard?

#501315

Because M$ thinks that IE6 compatibility is the best thing ever.

#501318

Oh yeah, but you have to ENABLE that, as far as I've heard.

Why, please god tell me why, it is not just enabled as standard?

You are mistaken. IE8 will render pages in "strict" standards mode by default.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/0...es-and-ie8.aspx

"IE7 standards" mode can be triggered using a META element in the web page header. IE6 "quirks" mode will be automatically used when an old DOCTYPE or no DOCTYPE is used.

#501322

Asking for IE8 to be based on FF is like asking for Windows 7 to be based on *BSD.

Only Apple could do that.

like in: 'Only Nixon could go to China.' (Mr. Spock)

#501733

sid, best news I've heard all week.

I won't have to write crazy looking code to make it render properly in IE anymore, YAY!

#501737

I won't have to write crazy looking code to make it render properly in IE anymore, YAY!

Amen to that brother... but (damn the crazy BUT pops again).. It will be a while till IE6 dies from current massive base it's already installed in. Those with Vista has IE7, but still the majority of win users are on WinXP and many haven't upgraded to IE7 as yet.

I think we will have to pull our hairs writing workaround codes for another half a decade, at least.

#501742

^ Right. IE8 will take time (maybe years) to be established as the primary Microsoft browser. Truth is most people couldn't care less what their browser is as long as it does what they need to do (checking e-mail, online trading, playing web-based games, social networking etc.)

The massive IE6 user base (most of whom are on IE6 simply because it comes installed with Windows XP) won't bother upgrading. Similarly, the majority of people using IE7 are using it simply because it comes installed with Vista.

In the meantime web developers will still have to create hacks to get their sites to look fine in IE6 and IE7.

#502587