Dictatorship

OK, since you people don't respect common curtesy, from now on we're introducing a new rule (and i will make sure to stick it).

NO MORE SCREENSHOTS FROM RIPPED THEMES! Those themes are still WIP and by ripping them you are pissing off the artist and making sure he doesn't allow a port. By this you are saying "**** you" to the community just to make yourself look cool.

All screenshots depicting ripped, unreleased themes will be deleted and members banned for 2 days.

No more discussion on this subject will be held here. If you want to discuss it, start a new thread.

Now let's go back to posting screenies.

Starting a new thread here at Unbe's request. I just have a few questions regarding this subject.

1. "All screenshots depicting ripped, unreleased themes will be deleted and members banned for 2 days." == Does this mean that all SS (by ALL members) that are of unreleased themes are bannable? Except for the artist themselves, of course.

2. Is this because of Ultraman's iMagine theme being ripped recently?

#338646

Mmm...well, I don't know how we can expect to have a rational discussion when you start a thread title with a name like that...

-NC

#338657

my apologies Mr. X

the title is far fetched. and would change if i could. however, i cant. so can we please discuss. btw, i am not trying to start an argument (however, the title was say ... out of line), just a discussion.

#338658

Not to worry, I'll just tell Unbe not to ban you outright . It's no big deal, 'long as you don't attack anyone or anything.

I'll provide my opinions tomorrow...it's late here.

-NC

#338660

one day ill find out the secret, mr X.

#338662

Well there's a rip and there's a rip isn't there.

I mean some people have no talent and bring out rubbish based only on stolen images.

But there's good themers who when they start a project may, to win space & time fill gaps in their theme with images that are not their own. Just to give a quick overview of the finished product to themselves.

So then some obscure source may yell thief! When the themer just forgot to take out those 7 pixels off that minimise button or whatever, and would have gladly finished it had the original artist brouught it to his attention kindly.

And that's saying nothing about font settings. the amount of times I've seen rare themes (yes, TD4, I'm a fanboy) have such perfect font shadowing, active and inactive to give just the right weight to provide perfect mac cloning, to see some piece de feces theme months later sport the same RGB shadowing to the digit.

#338663

I have no problem when people rip a theme and keep it to themselves and don't post a screenshot.

However, when a theme is currently in development, for another platform, not even released, and then ripped, chopped and diced for another OS and has the balls to post a screenshot of it I am against it.

This was why Niqu wasn't allowed to be ported for a while.

Same with Eternal.

Though to some, ripping is a compliment to the artist in their mind showing the theme is good it is just wrong. Because of one person, the rest miss out. It is disrespectful and most of the time inaccurate. If I was into PC theming I would much rather wait for a 1:1 allowed port to the OS rather than a cheap 1/20 completed black-market theme.

#338670

#338672

My 2¢.....

I am against someone telling me what I can or can't display on my property. That being said, if AS chooses to make that a rule then those of us who mod (and that is clearly the direction/meaning of an emulation site) just won't participate in the SS thread. It's the internet. There's no point in posting previews with any hope of it not being copied, modded, emulated, packaged, renamed and distributed. There's no stopping it.......it's pretty funny that it's a new rule on a site that is 100% geared toward ripping and copying the Apple OS X GUI for an alternate platform....

#338673

I see why this rule was made.

When people rip themes that haven't even been released, the author usually won't alow ports (Eternal & Niqu). It's just a matter of people be selfish. Make yourself be the only person to have the theme. Or let the whole community have it. When you don't help the community, you hinder it, therefore, your banned.

#338675

Hmm, see I have some other feelings about what unbe posted. (Wish he'd ask me before making the rules, even if I do ignore him)

IMO, if someone posts a screenshot in the DT thread, and it contains a ripped theme, as long as they do not distribute that theme/other works here, it really does not break any rules. Yes, it is as if the person is spitting on the original authors work/request, but even then, they are using it for their own use. Hell we ripped off Apple with Aqua. Do you see us posting screenshots, making skins blah blah blah...

If someone posts a screenshot in say a new thread, just to show off he ripped it, is one thing, then I can agree with the member being banned, but because they posted it in the DT thread? Come on. If the original author has a problem with it, they can ask a staff member, but making a big deal about it is just sad. Its just someone's desktop, you should feel honored someone actually likes your work.

Apple says "OMG YOU NEVVBS RIPPED OFF AQUA FROM OUR OPERATING SYSTEM!" = 2 day ban?

#338679

I personally think it's a bit unrealistic *not* to expect themes, icons, wallpapers, etc. not to be 'ripped' -- I use the term loosely here, as I don't really see it as theft -- because as dj was saying "this is the internet".

I also feel that some artists are a bit too precious about their work. I personally see copying and forgery as the most sincere from of flattery. If something isn't good enough to copy, then it wont get copied in the first place. Now granted, if someone is asking $$$ for their work, then to copy it is going into the realm of breaking the law.

All that being said though, if I am doing a skin, or whatever, to compliment someone's released theme, I will communicate my intentions to them. If they ok it, fine, but if not, in all honesty, I'd probably release it anyway.

In terms of AS being a community, and thereby expecting people involved in it to always share what they have, again, I feel this is very unrealistic. Yeah, there are some people here I like and will talk to on a semi-regular basis, but I certainly wouldn't call AS "home".

#338682

I'm a very quiet member in the customizing community I'll admit. I've only released a handful of little mods here and there. Nevertheless I'd like to throw in my two cents as well.

I think the general code that's been adopted by this community of requiring permissions etc for releases based on another's work is a great thing and does a wonderful job of giving people all the credit they are due. Having said that I'm confused at the aim of this new rule here.

NO MORE SCREENSHOTS FROM RIPPED THEMES! Those themes are still WIP and by ripping them you are pissing off the artist and making sure he doesn't allow a port. By this you are saying "**** you" to the community just to make yourself look cool.

Unless we're talking about some sort of pay theme, is the artist themself really hurt by this action? If anything to me this would follow the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." Following from that it seems to me that the real anti-community behaviour here would be this artist basically retaliating to a screenshot of a rip being posted by disallowing any kind of authorized port... and yet this is the behaviour that the community is choosing to support? I just don't get that...

#338683

Timan took the words right out of my mouth and then some.

#338684

While I have a vitriolic hatred towards rippers in general due to my experience with having my website stolen, I don't see why ripping for personal use is a big deal. Granted nobody has any business distributing ripped work, but I don't see what the big deal is if it's for personal use only. Consequently, I'm not sure I undertsand or agree with this new rule.

#338689

Time to pitch in my two pennies. I am going to make it clear, I am not an artist nor can I create the work many here has done. Grated that, whenever I see a "hot" new theme out, I naturally have the desire to be able to use it. Of course, since I am lacking the artistic talent to make it myself, I can only wait patiently/impatiently for ports.

People that have the ability to "rip" a theme and create it from scratch to depict an replication of the work, in my opinion, all power to them. Sure it sucks that "I" personally can't use it because these guys won't pass it over to me, but that's because they do respect the unwritten rule of non-distribution. (trust me, I will honestly admit that I have asked some members for certain themes and all have been turn down, makes me wonder if people are respecting the rule or just don't like to share, haha)

As for the original author not authorizing a port because of there is/are poorly ripped themes out is rediculous and purely an excuse to me. For one thing, why not just authorize an official port that will blow the fake out of the water? Sure it sucks to have someone else rush something out the door, but as long as the original is better, I am sure the audience can notice the difference. Let's be honest, nobody over at Apple authorized any port of Panther, Jaguar, Tiger, and etc, yet we have countless replications of it. And wait, not only are most not 1:1, most have little differences here and there. Does that make Apple scream at the online community to stop this "madness"? Well, even if they do, not like anything will come out of it anyways.

Finally, coming to my last point. If original authors are so keen on keeping the work authentic or true to the original style, why not release it for both platforms simultaneously? As far as I understand, most of the amazing themes aren't price tagged by $, so what's the deal? I am sure that not all of these artists have both platforms or is willing to spend the time to make one for a system he or she doesn't run. But at the same time, there are many great talents we have here in the community that are more than willing to take up a project.

Wells, that's just my thought on all this. I personally think that Unbeliever has taken it a bit wee too far. After all, this everything is fabricated in the digital world, kinda hard to stop anyone from doing anything they want. Oh, hrmm, another thought. The desktop threads would be somewhat dull without many of those screen shots, don't you all agree?

#338698

...it seems to me that the real anti-community behaviour here would be this artist basically retaliating to a screenshot of a rip being posted by disallowing any kind of authorized port...

That's exactly what it seems like to me, especially if this is supposed to be a "sharing" community. May I add, in my opinion and without trying to offend anyone, that it even seems a bit childish and immature. This kinda "Oh yeah?? You're gonna rip my stuff??? Alright man, FORGET MY PERMISSION FOR AN OFFICIAL PORT THEN!!! F*** YOU!!!" (maybe that's a little more colorful than the real thing, but you get the idea) attitude never ceases to amaze me. I just don't understand it. Why make the whole community pay for a few people who simply CAN'T WAIT for the release to come out?

I don't know, sometimes I see people really obsessing over a lot of things here. This is a big community and a lot of absolutely great stuff gets released. So if you see something really cool in a shot, and it's not for release, or a "personal mod", or whatever, then don't obsess over it. Something equally great WILL be released some day.

I think a lot of rippers sometimes rip because they're tired of the obvious little cliques and small groups of users who only share things amongst themselves. I suppose a lot of people may view this as elitism, and, in some way, I guess it could be, but I don't really care about it. If I were a talented artist I would totally release everything I made, 'cause I guess that showcasing your art, and having people enjoy it is part of being an artist. But if some people don't want to release something they made, then they totally have the right to make that choice. Nonetheless, I think some rippers, indirectly, rip so as to say "HA! You think you're more special than the rest of us?? Well looky here! I'm sporting your new sh** myself!". But that attitude also seems childish to me. Elitism shouldn't be rewarded with that kind of attention, if elitism is what's bothering you. And by this I'm not trying to call anybody an elitist, I'm just acknowledging the fact that people can sometimes see it that way.

Like I said before, if you see somebody post a screenshot with something you really like and it's not for release, then forget about it. Don't waste your time drooling over it if you're never gonna get your hands on it, or if you're not friends with the author. For example, I really like the Bathing Ape stuff (walls, icons) that bluerocket has done recently, and some of this stuff has been popping up in screenshots over the last couple of months, so I asked him about releasing it. He said he wasn't going to right now, and that maybe he will, in the future. All right! OK! It ends there. He didn't offer to share 'em with me personally, so I'm not gonna ask. I think that would just be creating an uncomfortable situation. So, if he releases it some day, cool. If not, well, whatever, congrats on making some kick-ass stuff and good luck with all your future things. I'm not gonna be trying to rip the walls, or rip the icons, or whatever. And that's just to give an example. I'm not trying to single him out, or anybody else, for that matter. It just happens like that. You see something you like, you PM the person, or you e-mail them, sometimes they send you links, sometimes they send you the goods, sometimes they say no, and sometimes (a lot of times) you don't even get a reply. F*** it man! They're just icons/walls/themes/whatever! It's not the end of the world...

There will always be more themes, more icons, more walls, more of everything, and all perfectly released and available for everyone. So just wait. Or if you can't wait, or feel like you're gonna die if you don't have something, fine, rip it, but it just seems like a waste of time to me. Want some fresh walls? Go on deviantArt. There are new walls being released there every day, or some vector art or whatever that you can use to make your own walls...and that's just one site, among the endless amount of sites available. Want some fresh icons? There are a lot of great icons being released all the time from a whole bunch of places, so just look. Big up to Whyred, who's put out some absolutely fantastic icons recently, and Susumu, and David Lanham (my personal favorite, and a great person too) and everybody else who has shared their creations with the community. And so on, and so on...

About the new rule, although after reading Timan's post I'm not sure if it's still gonna stand, I think it's a bit useless. No disrespect Unbeliever. I actually think you're a pretty good mod, even if you're very blunt at times. That's a good quality in a moderator though: sincerity. I also feel that you're a fair mod (i.e. will call the popular ones or your friends out if they break the rules too), but I don't think this rule is gonna be that effective. Rippers will always be around, no matter how many of them you ban, how many of them you make an example out of, how many themes don't get permission to get ported because of them, no matter what. It's just the same as with forums who have rules against showing Not For Release work: people keep showing them anyway; some get called out, others (well known, or "popular" members) don't. These things are just inevitable, and I really don't see this rule as being much of a deterrence. But I'm not a mod, nor the owner of the site, so I guess it doesn't really matter if I agree with it or not. As long as I want to keep participating in this community, I'll (we'll) have to follow and respect the rules, like 'em or not.

#338701

I think that the rules are a good thing. It's not that I care that someone has something that I don't have, it's just kinda disrespectful to the people who originally create themes and haven't given permission.

Obviously, theme creators for Mac see this as a threat because if someone has ripped the theme, then they have fear that that same person will distribute their rip and so on. So, two reasons why I think that people shouldn't post screenshots of rips:

1. It's disrespectful to the author in some aspects.

2. It hinders the chances of the community as a whole being able to enjoy the theme.

When people rip, it frustrates the original authors and then they decide upon no ports. Rippers can ruin it for everybody sometimes, as with Susumu and the creator of Niqu.

Don't get me wrong, I think that people should be able to post whatever they want when it comes to desktops. But I just think it shouldn't be allowed since authors obviously take disrespect from it and it sort of hurts the entire Aqua-emulating community as a whole sometimes.

#338704

I would just like to voice another thing. Perhaps this thread will mainly consist of discussion of the original thread, but people that have disagreements with stated opinions should involve themselves and defend or attack the issues at hand so we can try to gain a better understanding and perspective from both sides.

Darrel, with your first point, I tend to agree. However, we have to consider why it's disrespect and not a form of flattery like many would argue. Given an example of a poorly ripped theme would only denote the artist attempting the rip has little talent, so where exactly is the insult coming from? Whereas if a talented artist rips the theme from shown screen shots and does replicate the theme genuinely, where is the problem in that as long as it's for personal use? And as far as I understand, the majority of the people that have the talent to replicate a theme by a mere screen shot, they tend to keep the themes to themselves anyways.

As for the second point you made. Netox and I have stated our opinion on that and honestly, I really don't see it as a valid 'reason' for withholding authorization for ports.Like I said earlier, if they feel offended that the ripped version is no good, why not release one that they feel happy with? Or better yet, if the ripped version is pretty close to the original, why not save themselves the trouble of making it/porting and just go ahead and forward an authorization for the ripped version? If I recall correctly, here at Aqua-Soft, we don't allow distribution of unauthorized releases anyways, so it really shouldn't be an issue. (Sure, sometimes one or two will slip by until the Mods catch it, but as a whole, the community is pretty good about it.)

#338716

As many of you have so clearly and repeatedly said you are not artists and you do not understand the creative process. You do not know how someone who creates feels about their creation as you view it as a piece of meat in the market.

The old, tired argument is so worn out yet with each generation of n3wbs we get it over and over again. Aqua (for Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard etc) is being made by people who are being PAID to do it. People who create original themes are NOT being paid. What does it mean? It means that the only pay they expect is some respect. By ripping themes that are still WORK IN PROGRESS you are disrespecting them. Creative process is not a straight line. You do not start at point A and finish at point B. Creation is complete (and i use word creation cause it covers more than just themes) when artist feels so. When he knows he has achieved what he wanted.

Ripping WIP themes is also bad for the community so all you "community protectors" should use your head and realise why. When an arist posts a preview somewhere he expects feedback, not his theme being ripped before he even got the chance to finish it. Thus, rightly he decides not to allow a port. What does that leaves us with? That leaves us with "cherished few" members who's egos are so big and their self-confidence is so low that they have to rip themes to showcase them before everyone else so they would feel special. They have their half-assed ports while 99% of the community is left begging for unauthorised ports, basically begging people who are responsible they cannot enjoy a theme/icons/whetever.

They are left to beg for those themes who DO end up being shared. Trust me. I could have gotten EVERY theme showcased yet i chose to wait for official ports. So your "themes are not shared, they are personal port" argument is bullsh1t.

It is pathetic to rip WIP themes to feel special or a part of the "clique". This is not what people who care about the community do. And what good is that for you who claim to care about the community? You see a "pwetty pictuwe" suck up to the theme "creator"/ripper saying how he "rawkz!" and few weeks later when the REAL creator refuses to release a port cause his work has been violated, you ***** and whine like he's raped your mother and killed your family. Ripping someone's WORK IN PROGRESS theme is not flattery, it's a spit in the face.

If you think the fact that people share something for free excuses you from moral normes and common curtesy, i'm sorry, but you are idiots. It should be the other way. Those who give you something for free should be more respested and protected that those who make money off of you. And given the fact that it's hard to stop rips from happening, would it really be better not to even try?

About the thread title, jhorner, as a member of the staff you should know better than to title it this way. However it's NC's fault for choosing people who cannot even read the newsposting code of conduct.

This community is going down the drain (or at least has degraded a lot from what it used to be) and protecting and justifying those who violate simple human, moral norms and who are responsible for refused ports just shows where we're headed. This wouldn't have been a problem if we had more original artist. However, considering that 99% of themes released here are ports, this just shows how ungrateful and spoiled people here have become.

I will stick to the rule i made and will not allow 99% of members of this community to suffer because 1% of spoiled, hasty people needing their ego boost via a ripped WIP theme.

I do not ask you to respect the work and the time i've put into this community, i don not ask you to like me, but as long as i'm a mod in this community, as such you will have to comply with them.

EDIT: Tim artists DO mind and they DID contact a staff member. That is why i had to react.

#338723

Since I have the final say in the discussion, this new rule will be looked over. Discussion on this has ended. Thanks for all the valid input.

#338733