Discontinue Weather Docklet?

Hi everyone,

I have just read the ";http://www.weather.com/common/home/legal.html" site.

The site contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information, including, without limitation, text, software, photos, video, graphics, music and sound, and the contents of the site are copyrighted under the United States copyright laws. You may not modify, publish, transmit, display, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part. Except as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, retransmission, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express written permission of TWC and the copyright owner.

It basically, indicates that what I do is illegal (hence 0.1 didn't offer all the conditions/features). I am wondering if I should continue developing the docklet!

I am also thinking, if, left clicking the docklet to open a browser to weather.com would make a difference in the copyright issue. In addition, when right clicking (0.2 has a pop-up menu) the menu will be titled with something that contains "weather.com"?

Maybe it's better for me to avoid using weather.com's stuff altogether and switch to sources like weather.unisys.com, or better yet, directly from the NWS www.nws.noaa.gov. However, the downside to this is that support for international forecasts will be limited and that the code that Weather uses to parse web pages will need to be rewritten. But it's better than having weather.com get me (and possibly the users) into trouble.

I am about 70% through with v0.2 (with many features added).

If someone who knows more about the legality of this I would be very open to listen to it!

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

#30828

Found this site: Weather Underground

Can't seem to find any copyright information to restrict polling information from the site!

#30832

PLEASE don't discontinue this docklet! If you have to, change to another weather service, but I hope you don't discontinue this docklet.

#30837

I can't give you any legal advice, but here are a few thoughts.

There are weather scripts using weather.com for Samurize, also the Weather Widget for True Launch Bar uses weather.com for one of its options. As far as I can see, no permission has been given and I have not heard that anyone has got into trouble. Weatherpop on the Mac uses my.aol.com as its main provider and there is no acknowledgement in the documentation that I can find. This is a commercial program. I can't be certain that these have not sought permission, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of this. If AOL are not jumping up and down, then I think it unlikely that anyone else would!

Weather.com is a free to view web site; it does not charge anyone to get their weather forecast. Why not include in your ReadMe a big advert for their website, saying if you want the full forecast etc then go to the website. They would appreciate this free advertising.

What I'm saying is I think you will be ok, but if you are worried why not ask them and explain what you are doing?

I must add my voice to those who desperately hope that you do not stop development. I think you should certainly finish version0.2 and take it from there. Obviously though, i wouldn't want you to get into any trouble.

#30840

Have you spoken to anyone at weather.com? If not then I think you should. Tell them what you've made and how cool we all think it is and ask them if putting credit to them would make the problem less. I think that clicking on it to launch their site is a bit too much but giving them their due in the properties box (ie. "with kind permission from weather.com :bow: ") might keep them happy. Just a thought. Ludge

#30842

As long as you don't use their images, I don't see why there would be a problem

#30862

Thanks everybody for your kind comments and interest. I decided to continue the development of Weather... and we'll see what happens... :staffs here: - I'll investigate this furthur as development continues...

Note: The Weather Docklet section on my site is back up.

- Enjoy

#30863

I dont know if the ppl of samurize is (a lot) worry about... or the ppl of konkeror... So...

#30872

Albeik, if there is a copyright issue with weather.com, they'll just ask you to either remove it, or alter it to their satisfaction. I've dealt with this kind of thing before when I made a parody of the Intel Corporation's Pentium 4's logo on my website. Their lawyers just asked me to remove it. The Intel Gestapo didn't come breaking down my door or anything.

I told them to pound sand and a parody was completely legal under the DMCA. I didn't remove the parody and I never heard from them again.

Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to the next revision.

#30879

If you are pulling data off the website, that is no different than a search engine, or any 3rd party search tool, so I think you raise a good point but I don't believe what they commonly express as transmittal of information falls under copyright issue. If it were so all search engines, servers, and other programs would be in the same violation. Since the data is not even used to derive profit directly you would fall so far down the list of their concerns that they would not even care. I think this is an example where copyright laws are obsolete because they do not address the reality of the electronic age. Think about it, when you go to their webpage you are in effect pulling data into your computer so that you can see that page. Did they give you any rights to transmit & gather their content ? Yes, because they have made the information public and their intention was to make that information public. Not everything that is placed publicly gets copyright protection simply because they claim it. The person claiming copyright must demonstrate they have control of the distribution not just claiming they have control of the distribution. The law is that way because they cannot have thousands of courts and law enforcers chasing every bonafide violation. So the court always looks at the person that claims copyright and poses the question: what have you done to keep control of your product or service ? Has the company jeopardized control by making the product widely available ? have you consistently taken actions to protect your copyright interests ? etc.

The next point is that the information they make available public through the internet was dynamically "queried" or re-synthesize from other sites that are government agencies or business which means it is public data.

The concept that what you do falls under copyright issue as they stated is extremely low if any.

I would say don't use their graphics though as stated.

#30891

Well I can already tell that the Weather Docklet doesnt violate that because its like the eariler posts had said, Samurize Scripts have done it with no probs! I do believe that It would be a kind gesture to show that It uses weather.com in the readme or maybe in this left-click menu your talking about, But I dont think it would be REQUIRED of you to. Your weather docklet is AMAZING and I'm very glad that you have decided to continue work on it. You Docklets really are something else, its great to have someone so willing to spend their free-time for the community and all!

#30906

bringing up the city's forecast webpage, on click is a good idea (Y)

Chris

#30921

Well, I dont think doing it is illegal, BUT:

You are stealing. Im not mad or anything, and I know you meant no harm, but you are taking information THEY collected and paid for (and update), without giving them their profits. They probobly have ads on the site to pay for collecting this information, in essence, you are giving away their information without subjecting people to look at the ads.

You should just email them and ask them if its ok if you link to their site, and stuff like that. If they say no, please respect that and stop, they spend lots of money keeping this information up to date, and deserve the profits from it.

And doing something until you get cought, or stopped, doesnt make it right.

#30922

People pay for Linux but Linux is free. So simply because they paid for something does not grant them special rights. What they usually pay IF ANY is information given to them in a specific way, meaning indexed or arranged in a specific way. That is paying for a service not for the information itself. There are millions of pictures from NASA that are free but 3rd party vendors will catalog them and re-sell them for a fee. You are not paying for the pictures but the service of how they were arranged and distributed. Same goes for geological information, weather information, health data, natural resources, all gathered by tax payer and free. The fact that you have sponsorships or ads does not mean anything in terms of having exclusive rights to information in the website. Don't go fishing for trouble, when the most likely person to answer you will not be a lawyer . I'll leave it at that.

#30923

If he does in fact link his docklet to weather.com's forecast page, I will certainly click on it to view my detailed forecast. A temperature and dock graphic is neat and all, but I would like to see my complete forecast. His docklet can only add traffic to the weather.com site, which will benefit weather.com the most.

#30925

Do you really think weather.com collected and paid for that information? Where do you think they get their information from? They get it from the National Weather Service. The NWS is a government agency which is supported by my tax dollars, so in essence, I (we) am (are)paying for that information through my tax dollars and the easier it it delivered to me, the better.

#30926

If the weather docklet is reading a text file and taking specific information and then the program displays that data in it's own GUI then that is not a problem. If the program is recreating the original website like "windowing" another site then that may be a problem.

I presently use a PNG icon in my dock that takes me to NOAA's weather forcast for my particular area.

here is the root page for that:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/forecasts

I can't believe there is not a similar for Europe.

is anything here helpful ?

http://www.worldweather.org/

#30927

They use THEIR OWN weather equipment, how else do you think they have those diagrams and "videos" on their Cable channel.

also, I want to see you post up to the minute weather for every single city. They have to collect it from the government agency and package it into a nice readable, searchable, form.

Also, you are using THEIR bandwidth to deliver the information. That absolutly costs them money. Why not use the Government weather service, since its yours anyway?

And bandwidth is surprisingly expensive.

Your right Videomann, but like I said above, your using their bandwidth and site. You should just use the origional site if you dont want to steal.

Also, Linux is NOT free as in "free beer", its free as in "freedom", common misconception that most people have. (including me for a while :shy: )

Dont get me wrong, I dont want you to stop the docklet, its wonderful, but I dont want you to hurt anyone else in the process.

#30930

I don't see any "stealing". Increments in bandwidth of their site because people go to their site is not bandwidth stealing it is called the cost of having a popular webpage. Yes that is a cost they absorb but it is not stealing. Do you think reading a webpage text file takes that much bandwidth? Search engines , spiders, bots etc., are then stealing huge amounts of bandwidth from every small and large company.

Whenever possible using weather data from a gov. site is best like you said but, I don't share the characterization of "stealing" or make sure they approve as if something illegal is happening, which is just scaring people without much basis.

They even make their own weather widget free and encourage you to use it. That does not present itself as a problem with bandwidth or exclusive use of their data.

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#30933

Yeah, they are probobly not losing that much money, but its the principal.

Your using THEIR services to get your information, and it costs them money to run all this equipment.

How do search engines hurt them? Yeah, they are using their bandwidth, but NOT their services. They arent giving weather information out. They are just linking to their site to so you can get the weather.

And that free Weather Widget has ads on it.

Like I said, I dont think the guy had any intent to steal, and either way, im not really upset. But I do consider it stealing, so I stick by my words.

And just because bots do it, doesnt mean its right.

#30935

You hit it on the nose judge. The question is really is it that bad to skim information (good term). And obviously, this is opinion. So albeik has to make the decision for himself.

shhh....dont give Elppa ideas. We dont want them getting their claws into us.

we love you apple. :shy:

#30941

Take a look at www.smartbarxp.com...it's got a weather "pane" on the sidebar and it takes its info and maps from weather.com (or several other weather sites - whichever you choose)...I assume there's plenty more apps that grab the info from weather.com (go to nonags.com and look for weather apps).

I say keep development going...if they want folks to stop, they'll let them know.

#30956

I think some of you are getting your feathers ruffled over nothing... This is not stealing this is just like pulling syndicated content off of a site. As long as he doesn't use/alter their images, there should be no problem what so ever. Weather.com doesn't "own" the weather conditions. If they have a problem with stuff like this, (and I doubt they do) there are plenty of other places that he can pull this information from.

#30975

hey albeik,

I think you are doing an awesome job on this weather docklet. one can argue the issue of legality in terms of info on the web till they are blue in the face. i feel that as long as what you are doing is not disruptive to the organization then you should be penalized. besides the weather should cause this much grieve anyways. it would be different if you were streaming premium content to all of us but you are not.

so keep developing the docklet and make it even better than it is now.

peace out.

****ie 72 (Y)

#30983

Once you can give the user an option to select, you have no control of what weather source they use...

Once the user had downloaded the docklet, it is out of your control...

This idea could save you problems...

#31015