What Would You Do?

Well, this year I graduate from high school, which is not a big deal to me personally, but my mother is planning a party for me. I am a year behind all of my friends in school, yet each of them have failed to graduate as of yet, two of whom just dropped out, one of whom was in a car accident at the end of the year and failed to complete. What i want to know is; Should I invite them to said party? It would seem rude NOT to invite them, then again, I don't want to appear as if I am rubbing their noses in it. Or perhaps I'm just making too big of a deal out of this? Should I just mail the damn invitations and wait to see how they react? What would you do??

Thanks in advance

SailorBob

#28754

if they are really friends of yours, you should invite them. if they think youre rubbing it in their noses, then they arent really good friends, eh?

#28762

Well, the answer I'm going to give you may sound wrong but in the overall picture it will be better. If they have not graduated, or you think they may not, then they are not the right friends to be around. You should have drop them a longtime ago. They are bad influence. The fact that you went further than them means you have a more independent personality but you should keep in mind for the rest of your life that you know between right and wrong and you at this age should begin to start making those decisions for the rest of your life. You have not started your adult life and probably won't for 3-6 yrs. . Friends in life should not be considered the same as family. They are not sacred in anyway. What most people call friends including good friends are nothing more than acquaintances at different periods of your life. We are all lucky if we find 2 "true" friends in our lifetime.

Enjoy the friendship of acquaintances but don't confuse that simply because you spend some goodtimes together it means they are true friends. They themselves will change with time and have already made some bad decisions. Just as you probably don't care much about friends you had when you were 5-7yrs old so it will be in 10-15yrs down the line.

Invite them, behave, and start getting involved in activities that will foster friendships of people that make better life decisions. Moving towards a more positive life situation whether it means a job, or a new set of interests, or getting new friends is part of growing-up.

It doesn't mean to diz them but it does mean their friendship should not get you involved in situations that may not be good for you. If you want to be a good influence try to encourage them to go back to school, maybe later a trade college, or whatever their interest is. Inspire them. Don't live your life through the life they are choosing for themselves but chart your own path with positive aspirations and hard work. Your whole future is in front of you, the older you get the less choices you have available to you so concentrate in your future and enjoy being your age.

#28766

Yeah, what he said. Edit:// oops I did't read videomann's post thoroughly enough, umm I gotta disagree, a friend is a friend is a friend.

#28777

don't listen to what mr high and mighty says, invite them and have a good time

#28784

Originally posted by VideoMann@May 23 2003, 08:09 AM

Well, the answer I'm going to give you may sound wrong but in the overall picture it will be better.  If they have not graduated, or you think they may not, then they are not the right friends to be around. You should have drop them a longtime ago. They are bad influence.

do you really think that?!?

if no grade you're a bad person!OMG, you have a really tight vision of the world, so for you everything is black or white, can't it be grey?

do you really think if you fail to an exam then you are not someone to hang out with? i could list many famous people that hadn't any grade but contributed greatly to the world man....

exams are not a goal just a way to reach goals...correct me if i'm wrong, but school doesn't teach you how to live, but only teaches you how to get your grade, & that's sad.

excuse my english...

#28787

Hmm, tell mom to chill on the party. You can change your own clothes now, wipe your own nose, and generally dont need to be read a story to go to bed now...you can do without the party.

Now if she wants a party, she can invite her friends, do her thing, and stop bothering you with it. You graduated - isn't that asking enough of you?

Thats just my opinion - Im the same guy that tells people to send cash instead of gifts for holidays, because I'll just return what they get me for cash anyway. i.e: If you really care, save me the effort of being an ass and just send cash.

#28794

It just a party man, a place for friends to meet, treat it as such and it'll be great.

Unless your at an age where your character is not strong enough to make good decisions.

Come on somebody that flunks out of highschool or gets held back isn't automatically a social retard or a reject. What happened to empathy and compassion. Some of the most brilliant men in history flunked out. OK so did some serial killers, but to me that doesn't mean anything.

The most prestigious and respected university is called "the university of life", entrance is free. distinction graduates are few.

Eventhough I graduated a bachelor of science from a pretty good english university, you wont ever hear me disrespect somebody with a lower education.

Usally these people are (or become) the movers and shakers of our society, simply because of their adaptation to the harsh realities of life. Strength of character is and forms in those instances.

Ok Videomann I know I know, the guy is just a 16 year old kid. But I say live and learn, it's the only way to be, the only way to earn your existence, everyone else is just a freeloader.

Plus they're just a couple of buddies that weren't as lucky as he was, they're not criminals. I for one think that an environment of only high upperclass achievers and obnoxious pricks, will kill the guy more.

Go do it buddy, your friends will see the same. Just don't mention the graduating part too much.

#28804

i agree with Three Drives, its just a party for friends to be at. they may have dropped out of high school through no fault of there own, like i believe sailor bob said one was in an accident and failed to complete (although i think the school sucks on that part...the guy was in an accident, cut him some slack and give him some more time to complete, unless the guy didnt want to...but i digress).

but i still say invite your friends, if they are good friends they will be happy for you. but as Three Drives said, dont mention the graduating thing too much (even though it is a graduation party).

#28820

Apple's Steve Jobs is a dropout... If I were you. I wouldn't think anything of it. Just invite your friends... the ones you really like to invite... whether they graduated or not. Unless they somehow misplaced their brains, I'm sure they know that you graduated because you did your best while they probably didn't. Then in the party, talk about the usual stuff. Now where's the barbeque?

#28821

Thanks for your advice, guys. Yes, my one friend was in a very nasty accident during the week of final exams and failed out. He's still trying to graduate now, but he's a very umotivated person. The other two dropped out due to lack of interest. I suppose they'd be understanding enough. The only reason it got to me is that they should have graduated a year ago, every one of them failed to do so, and I, the young one, did it first.

And Zombie, I thought I was cynical, but I was wrong. you get the trophy. This is important to my family, so I'll go through the motions for them, silly as it may be. My sister never graduated, my parents only got their GED's, as a matter of fact, I am the only person in my family who has gradated in the last 50 years, so it's no wonder. Besides, it's free gifts and money, plus I get a car.... not a nice car or anything, but one that I can only assume moves.

And I suppose I have bigger concerns, like which college to go for, etc, etc.

Thanks again.

If anyone has any further input, I'd be glad to hear you out.

#28862

The world is not black and white but the world is not all shades of grey either where you must accept everything. If you have not well formulated principles that you stick by then you have no principles at all and cannot judge what is black and white.

People that view all the world in shades of grey are the worst lost in life, not knowing what are negative conditions in life.

People that have strong values in life : good work ethic, goal setting, can do attitude, perseverence, are the ones that get the furthest regardless of the "life obstacles". Negative distractions in life usually will set you in a road to continue failure. Such obstacles as drugs, alcohol, party and live each day to the fullest, basic hedonism, drinking & driving, unprotected or indiscriminate sex, thievery/larceny, etc. become those "life obstacles" . Treat your friends like friends but don't get pulled into their lifestyle simply because they are your friends. Friends will come and go into your life many times over, through College, Trade School, sport activities, re-location, and jobs.

We are not all Steve Jobs who got discovered in Mom's and Dad's garage making circuit boards. You don't think they were stupid enough to drop-out of College to pursue a personal computer do you? They were given a monetary contract long before they quit school. You also are not likely to be the son of a wealthy lawyer with a extremely succesful Corporate Legal Practice living in a rich area of Seattle who can get a good bag of money from Daddy over several years while trying to start a company as Bill Gates did. So don't buy these Cinderella stories that little people became millionaires overnight simply based on a Bohemian Dream. Few of the millions in this country and the world end-up in such situations. I guess people will also tell you that Amazon.com was also made into a large corporation with nothing but a dream. It was started when Daddy and Mommy sold a house and gave $100,000 to son. Aim for the sky, set your dreams, work hard, and whatever you get will be part what you made of it and part what God decided for you.

It is the lack of experience and maturity that prevents people to stick to longterm decisions. I never said they were criminals, but it is a troublesome indicator when somebody does not do the minimum to integrate into society which is learn how to read write and get a BASIC education. Parents who have kids that do not attend school should be fined and if those kids continue not to do their social responsibility in getting an education should be subjected to community service and an "educational boot-camp".

The most prestigious and respected university is called "the university of life". To me The University of Life is neither prestigious nor respectable. It is more trial by fire where you get burned at every turn. It is remedial school for those that failed to set higher goals or school for those who ended-up with little opportunity. There is a political Radio announcer named Sean Hannity (Fox News). Today he makes good money but he had to quit College several times because he could not afford it. He would work, make money, pay for College drop out. Next year he would do the same until he could finish his education. His parents were not wealthy either. That is an inspiration to hard work and goal setting. He knew that the free University of Life had little to offer and that it was largely a myth in reputation.

Being 17, 18, 21 hardly is a measurement of maturity. Making your own mistakes is an indication that in many cases (not all) that person has not paid attention to the mistakes of others (usually other adults who made mistakes). You can live and learn from your own mistakes and end-up with all the bruises of life or you can learn first from others and live a better life. Simply because the guy next to you decided to take a sprint in life and tripped on a stone doesn't mean you should do the same . Learn from others that lived. You should be looking at your family as a source to shape your life, by emulating what they did right and avoiding what they did wrong. Your decisions overall will lack the maturity of the decisions your family made so don't think that a magic number in age all of a sudden makes you eligible to make good decisions. You should look at your parents as an inspiration to make sound decisions as you grow older until the day they die. Nobody in your life will have the best intentions for you overall than your own family.

Graduating from High School is no big deal but then again my parents said when I was little I would not walk until they would applaud so if it wasn't for those applauses who knows if I would be walking today and how that would impact my life. You are getting a party because it marks a milestone in life just as I got my applauses. It is also a mark for your parents that even through their own problems they raised a kid that has gone further along than them and may have a better chance to prosper. Their joy should be your joy and vice versa.

#28869

You are right; the love of ones parents is the ONLY one and true -unconditional- love in life. It is the only empathy and understanding one can trust. However, attempting to guide adolescence into adulthood is like trying to put out a fire by fanning it. It will only increase the strength of rebellion.

I'm not trying to sell him a roses and picket fence dream. One will not and cannot learn until one experiences, the rudimentary level of common sense is usually enough in most to make a distinction between right or wrong.

You say the university of life (in your opinion = no formal education) is a fallacious argument. Nevertheless you miss the point, in that it is not applicable to this youngsters case. He is the one who has already graduated. It is his friends and their possible reactions to a buddy's graduation party that is the topic.

My opinion as I have stated before, is that this kid, if he has a strong enough conviction and character, can actually make a difference in his friends' lives, by becoming a source of academic inspiration.

You on the other hand imply that he should cocoon himself from all that is intellectually unworthy or unsuccessful in his direct environment.

I disagree, I think he should attempt to set an example to his peers, be a cornerstone of rationality to their indecision, and consequently understand and reflect on his own position and outlook in life.

Not be relegated into a position where upperclass elite mixes with upperclass elite and the uneducated or (currently) uninspired are left to eat sh-it.

Would it not be beneficial to society if educated persons attempted to be a source of inspiration to their peers, instead of being forced (by class distiction) into reclusiveness from the rest of society like expensive sheep herded into seclusion?

Every person, no matter their age or immaturity, has a fundamental desire to be themselves. This, when unrelinquished, no matter the level of resistance or temptation, is what forms character. This is what allows men to -be- the change they wish to see in this world.

We cannot afford clever people to hide away like scared mice.

#28891

I make friends by considering everyone equal, and just going by my gut feeling. If I get along with that person, ill continue to persue that relationship.

If you are stupid enough to follow w/e your friends do, then you've got bigger problems. Friends are there to talk to, confide in, and have fun with, this isnt some big life commitment.

Good for you, inviting the kid. As long as you didn't actually "rub it in", then you have nothing to feel bad about.

#28892

However, attempting to guide adolescence into adulthood is like trying to put out a fire by fanning it. It will only increase the strength of rebellion.

Not really. Parenting involves support and an attempt to show reason and guidance in how to make a mature decision by example. The strength of rebellion is a symptom that has nothing to do with parenting (unless it is a disfunctional family with deep issues) but more to do with immaturity of the younger member. Being a parent is like being a General/Sargent, your Boss, & teacher all roled into one. Rebellion must always be quenched with 100 push-ups and 100 sit-ups, plus cleaning the whole house, mowing the lawn, cleaning the car, and a yearly Bon-fire of last years music.

the rudimentary level of common sense is usually enough in most to make a distinction between right or wrong.

The problem is that common sense is not common at all (Mark Twain knew this 100yrs ago), so discipline is more reliable. Another reason that in sports and the military you are drilled to perform rather than to give you lessons in common sense. The whole idea of going to school is to instill in you a sense of discipline , responsibility and reliability to show up in time at work rather than teach you common sense. It's a well known fact in the educational-work force philosophy.

(He) can actually make a difference in his friends' lives, by becoming a source of academic inspiration.

Hey! I said that first, whatzematterwithyou, ?

You on the other hand imply that he should cocoon himself from all that is intellectually unworthy or unsuccessful in his direct environment.

No! How can you cocoon yourself from life? What I'm saying is that most friendships are not that important. You are not marrying your friends. You change....they change ...life goes on, you become more mature.... what's important today more than likely is insignificant tomorrow. A person is really mature when they can make reasonable positive decisions based on the conditions they find themselves with the hope and goal that tomorrow they will be in a better situation. If you find yourself in a situation where drugs are being used, don't get involved. If you see your friends stealing something try to convince them that it was not cool and the trouble they would get is not worth it. If their values continue to endanger your future then dissociate from them. They must value your friendship as much as you value theirs. Relationships in friendship, marriage is a 2 way street. Don't become emotionally dependent on friends to meet your psychological needs or happiness. Look into yourself for that.

I disagree, I think he should attempt to set an example to his peers, be a cornerstone of rationality to their indecision, and consequently understand and reflect on his own position and outlook in life.

Hey! I said that first, whatzematterwithyou, ? You paraphrase me twice.

upperclass elite mixes with upperclass elite and the uneducated or (currently) uninspired are left to eat sh-it.

That is a loaded statement that requires 100 yrs of discussion . We have public schools in 98% of the world so there is little excuse for being uneducated. The sh## they eat is part and parcel of what they planted. The first responsibility is to help oneself rather than to shift responsibility to others for bad decision you make (not you personally). People need to take responsibility for their own actions long term and short term rather than 20 yrs later looking for excuses and living a life of remorse and bitterness.

Would it not be beneficial to society if educated persons attempted to be a source of inspiration to their peers

Sure! It happens everyday in school when you read a story with a moral behind it. When your teacher shows you kindness. When the Principal, Policeman, Fireman stops by to give you values as a citizen. When you go to Sunday Church and the Priest gives you a sermon. But if people are bent on being rebellious, anti-social (like stealing and breaking property), cuzzing as if it was inspirational speech, then they are damned to get the wrath of the law . You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. You can inspire people to be a positive force in society but the final decision is up to them.

Every person, no matter their age or immaturity, has a fundamental desire to be themselves. This, when unrelinquished, no matter the level of resistance or temptation, is what forms character.

Yes but that is not the kind of character one should strive for. Jesse James, Charles Manson, and others where people of great character who had a desire to be themselves. True worthy character is when you resist your own wild , illogical, and destructive behaviour and mold it to a controlled desire to integrate and be positive for yourself and society. Being free to express yourself at your own whim is not a cherished quality and in most cases leads to a negative anti-social tedency. If you like to take a picture of yourself naked and post it, we will distribute it so that all can see your total freedom and individuality. What most people call being individual is in fact being sheepish, unimaginative, and most of all immature. Let me see? I'm going to be an individual and pierce my tongue like 10 of my friends did. Then I'm going to put a tattoo in my rear end like 10 of my friends did. Then I'm going to get drunk and drive a car with my friends like 10 of my friends did. Then I'm going to trash this property like 10 of my friends did. Then I'm going to run and buy a cell phone and call all of my friends for 10hrs because 10 of my friends did. Yup, that is being an individual. The jails are full of these individuals and we cannot afford to build more jails for people that like to be free and uncontrollably expressive. There is a song that says.."Freedom is just another word for nothing else to loose".

We cannot afford clever people to hide away like scared mice

Don't know what that means. Huhh?? It's the unclever people that hide from life through rebellious behavior.

Words of wisdom from a babe. :baby:

#28898

Hmm...the unconditional parental love thing I'll leave alone. Millions of people would disagree, along with the back log of courts across America trying to track down deadbeat moms and dads. I adopted my oldest child because his biological father wanted NOTHING to do with him. However, I digress...

It's not cynacism that fuels my post, it's a truthful look at your posting here in the forum. If this situation bothers you enough that you can't immediatly and clearly make a decision on your own about what to do than my opinion is that it is too much trouble to be bothered with.

Its just a party...there are more important things in life to do for your parents. If this is a level of pleasing your family that you are comfortable with, then thats good for you - its just not something I'd do.

#28917

VideoMann

Your description of a perfect educational system as being analagous to the army has me very worried.

Military traning is synonymous if nothing else to having every single sense of individuality beaten out of you. I was in the army (navy), unless you were (and depending on how long you were), I doubt I could discuss this with you further while retaining a sense of meaning.

Your description of "individuality" as getting your tongue pierced because as you say 10 of your friends did, to me simply sounds like sophomoric escapades of a mind which, seeks to find the acceptance it cannot find in itself, in others. Not individuality.

You seem to have misunderstood, or perhaps I have not been able to express clearly enough, that this discussion was not between rebellion and discipline. I did not see it as such, because I think I was clear enough in my posts that I am not someone who is opposed to discipline, but am in favour of originality and individuality.

Why you have misunderstood my use of the words originality and individuality to mean riding a souped up harley, naked through the streets of town shooting infants with a sawn off shotgun, laughing in the face of the law while showing off your 5 tongue piercings, until you get gunned down and going out in a "blaze of glory", surprises me.

This discussion between you and me, has transgressed, from what in your view was, a simple argument where one side (me) favours rebellion, and the other side (you) favours discipline.

Why you have taken up such a stance is not clear to me. However that this perspective stems from a change in your character caused by some episode or experience that has occured in your past is evident.

Nevertheless, it is my opinion that the view you have provided on the issue of rebellion vs discipline speaks for itself. Your particular view, that in the upbringing of a child, substituting common sense by supplanting military disciplining is favourable, will be duly noted.

As to your last comment, I hope that it was, as seems, self-referencing.

If not, I think it was inappropriate, after such an effort to retort on the post, to attack the poster aswell.

EDIT:// For all of you kiddies of under 18, don't look at this argument of ours as "oh here go those old guys arguing again, booooring." Actually read it, and try to draw your own assumptions as best as you can.

#28972