Hi,
I'm wondering if someone with the skills needed, has ported Iceman's Brushed VS for use with Windowblinds 4, as I think this skin just leaves all other waaaaay behind in comparison. Perhaps Iceman himself?!? I've tried all other skins on all sites, and none is as good as this one. So please...
If I get premission from iceman!! I'll give it a try!!
Any luck? Damn, I wish I was skilled at making skins...
Greetings,
My reply doesn't seem to comply with the topic somehow. However, after reading through this thread, I tried to download the Iceman's theme and installed on XP (I was not aware of its installation was so easy, just put unzip the file and the expanded files into c:\windows\resource\themes directory and enabling them via "Display Properties"). Then I got a Mac-like XP without enabling my WB4! (I used a couple of WB4 skins, such as OSXP-NG and Crystal to simulate MacOS GUI)
Wow, since Iceman's theme is so great, I begin wondering if I'll continue my WB4 memebership after it expires.
Regards,
David 
Iceman's theme can be a legend.
it is simple, clean and yet very beautiful.
for me, wblinds is a mess 
@digitheatre, I could not agree with you more...A VIA forum colleague, who is now a Mod @ DT2 knew that I was on a emulated Mac frenzy, and put a link to Iceman's Emulation site...
From there, I then joined both DT2 and Aqua-soft and what a complete blast the whole scenario is!!!
Is there a difference why people would prefer WB4 rather than in Visual Style format ?
Since Visual Style is more native to WindowsXP it should be less buggy or is it some special features of WB4 that can enhance the theme that makes it better in WB4 format ?
-- Just wondering --
According to your reference:
It can add functions to it. Such as roll up the window, make it transparent, send to systray assigned to either a button or a titlebar click.You can move the titlebar buttons anywhere on the window and have the border be freeform or have the titlebar upside down. You can add different buttons with different functions and have them scripted. Or have a button show under certain circumstances like if your button is over a certain button or if the window has that button. On my themes I have the x - + buttons all lighting up at once when you put your mouse over them like on OSX. The titlebar doesn't have a top stretch function for the titlebar though so the author decides how big the titlebars should be. Another thing you can add are special controls such as ones that control winamp, or other "smart bar" type controls.
WB4 handles shell styles without you having to distribute a dll with your theme. And now with windowblinds 4.0b it does tool window borders like the floating palette windows in photoshop which I have been adding support for in my themes.
But some of these things can also be made in Visual Style although not most. The advantages are for the creator of skins not the user. Once you have a popular skin in Visual Style you would not want to implement new features under WB4 because it would make the skins look or perform different than the original.
If you are designing a skin in WB4 from the beginning to take advantage of special features I could understand but I doubt people would re-interpret a Visual Skin and implement a few new features under WB4. Just a thought, could be wrong.
Nice article smoke....This should help clear up some doubts our junior members may have....
Siddharth
I myself don't interpret visual style skins and no you can't do what I mentiond with the titlebar buttons with a visual style. You can't move them much less script them to be just like OSX. Nor can you animate any buttons like throbbing close\cancel.
Don't you think if they please the skin developer with features then they would have more incentive to make skins? Not everyone just uses skins some also make them. If a developer can make a skin better, more accurate, then everyone wins.
Now, if you are happy with just VS and want to stick to them that is fine. But others might like other things such as WB skins.
Originally posted by digitheatre@May 7 2003, 07:27 PMIceman's theme can be a legend.
It is not that it could be, IT IS A LEGEND since the moment he released it 
Does anyone know what happened to Iceman? 
Don't you think if they please the skin developer with features then they would have more incentive to make skins? Not everyone just uses skins some also make them. If a developer can make a skin better, more accurate, then everyone wins.
There is little point in making skins if nobody uses them. Windowblinds by Stardock and VisualStyles are businesses not non-profit creative ventures. The incentives they have for giving designers more capability is to grow the user base so they can sell more products. Like all companies the bottom line is what drives these companies not the skin designer community needs and wants. So long as the needs and wants of the designers can generate profits by increasing user base, that will be the commitment of the companies.
I have nothing against porting or remaking VS skins to WB4 but let's see how many people DO translate those skins or IF WB4 displaces VS skin format. So long as VS skin format remains the dominant alternative to skinning WindowsOS, WB4 remains a route for skin making that is more attractive to skin makers than users. But we will have to see if the user defines the market or the designer as of now it is the user that defines the standard. Windowblinds 3 was very successful because there was little competition, will Windowblinds4 surpass or produce as many skins as WB3, I don't know time will tell, but I doubt it.
As of now there is approximately 6x more VisualStyleXP skins than WB4. Can the designers produce skins significantly different enough with better features that will overcome StyleXP user base ? That is a BIG question as to who dictates the market users/consumers OR designers. I do agree that it is a win-win for users but not for designers unless they can cultivate a large base of WB4 users.
As of Today
Deskmod:
Windowblinds V.3.x .........176
Windowblinds v4x............. 10
StyleXP....................208
Wincustomized: A heavy supporter of Stardock
Windowblinds (all categories)..........2233
estimated v4x...............115
estimated v3x..............2032
ThemeXP: VStyleXP site
StyleXP............788
Nobody uses them? Au contrair, the skins I have released this week have gotten 500 or so downloads in 2 or so days a piece. And that's on my site which isn't nearly as known as wincustomize. That's more than nobody.
Visual styles aren't a busines in themselves though the themes service was made by Microsoft. Yes, the "evil corporation". I don't see microsoft putting any more features into visual styles until maybe longhorn. But that's dubious at best since it's in alpha at the moment.
I really think microsoft just made visual styles as a way to insert their brand into XP with luna so they could point to it and show how it looks different than the previous windows. Otherwise they would have made it so we could change the layout of the titlebar for example and do all you can do with WB.
And no TGTsoft doesn't count as a company that works on the themes service in XP apart from making a program that let's you edit them and one that lets you load up some wallpapers as well as hack the uxtheme's security features.
Most skinners don't make money off their projects though.
I would hazard to say that mostly the thing that makes visual styles more attractive to users it that it has been bundled with the OS by default. And the reason why it had been historically more compatible is that it just doesn't skin most controls in applications that are not theme aware. WB4 has a feature like this available.
You can use WB 3.x skins with WB4 and since WB3 was made during the XP period a lot of those skins do the XP tasbar and start panel. It was mostly the shell styles that where added in WB4. Though I myself like to go all out and make as many improvements as I can. Because while a WB3.x skin is fully functional and can look great (just look at dangeruss' and hippy's old stuff). This is a HOBBY to me and I like to try to take things to the next level.
I however don't think that numbers of skins define quality of the application. Especially when a lot of skins are hacks or recolors of existing themes. Such as all the hacks and recolors of luna.
Number of skins define where companies put their money in new programs for skinning. It has nothing to do with what a designer thinks. That is my point that it is not designers that drive the market but the companies.
Designers created the market and that is that. It does not matter what capability a program has in designing skins, what matters now is where is the user interest is. It also does not matter if a specific designer makes money. As you said you or others hardly make any money at all but rather that companies use the popularity of skin designs to sell their programs and generate interest in the company's ventures. Pushing software to designers/programmers/users is about making money for the company not for those that use it.
The cost of running a website as ThemesXP cost money and it does ultimately come from their skinning ventures = business directly or indirectly.
----------------------------------------
I do hope more skins are made in WB4, there is no disadvantage for the user, just more work for the designer/skinner which gets paid mostly by gratification or by using it as another demonstration of graphic design capability or esthetics in computer knowledge.
Well, unfortunately I don't have any plans to make a WB version of the theme. Besides the discussion above, I don't use to use windowblinds too much (I've bought the ObjectDesktop suscription) because I don't like it. I have to admit that WindowBlinds has became better and better with every release but it still having too many bugs for me.
Just as information, some years ago I used to use WB in a very intense way with Win2K, to emulate Mac OS 8.x themes. For such purpose, WB was EXCELLENT and one of the most appreciated apps of my collection.
However, if somebody wants to make a version of the Brushed Theme I'll be glad to give him all my support, providing files (PSD's and such) or any information needed.
Iceman.
wow.. da massa said ayess! 
Originally posted by Iceman@May 8 2003, 12:35 AMWell, unfortunately I don't have any plans to make a WB version of the theme. Besides the discussion above, I don't use to use windowblinds too much (I've bought the ObjectDesktop suscription) because I don't like it. I have to admit that WindowBlinds has became better and better with every release but it still having too many bugs for me.
Just as information, some years ago I used to use WB in a very intense way with Win2K, to emulate Mac OS 8.x themes. For such purpose, WB was EXCELLENT and one of the most appreciated apps of my collection.
However, if somebody wants to make a version of the Brushed Theme I'll be glad to give him all my support, providing files (PSD's and such) or any information needed.
Iceman.
agree, I think wb still has bugs and messy. I kept trying for every version of wb, but i can't stay with it for more than one hour.
the thing is, even though you can create perfect skin with wb, it still not perfect just because of the wb.
but, with visual style, it is stable enough, even though you do not have perfect skin, at least you have control over it. for average skinner, they just want a beautiful desktop, features comes later.
btw, stylexp is is not getting anywhere with skinning business, why pay when you can get hacked uxtheme.dll anywhere. well, but stylexp is easy enough for ****ie though
@iceman: the way you implement the Lucidagrande font in your theme is great. I have never found any other theme implement it that way. not every place in osx use font like lucidamacbold, some parts have very similar one like yours. I hope there will be a tutorial in doing that
I'm making a brushed wb skin!! just give me a litle bit of time!!
Judge, could we choose not to load svhost on startup if we are using WB? Or maybe does WB kill svhost to take the control of Windows layout... will this be worthy?
yay!!!!!!!!!
we will now see one of the best visual styles on wb4 - many many thanks to Iceman for the wonderful VS and now to magbi9 for the upcoming port to WB4.
i have never skinned anything other than the occassional onion, potato ... but i will be rooting for magbi9 for sure
Originally posted by magbi9@May 8 2003, 01:32 PMI'm making a brushed wb skin!! just give me a litle bit of time!!
Cheers! Sure looking forward to it. Take your time. I tried to convert it, but failed miserably because I really stink at skinning. It's really appreciated!
I tried to cheat a lil' bit by using the import VS feature of skinstudio .. but was stumped after the import. It brought in all the images but there was no definition file for the theme and i had no idea how to proceed from there.
oh well ... eagerly looking forward to another great theme from magbi9!!
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