Aqua-Soft Forums

"i Don't Like Desktopx"

Originally posted by Septimus@Aug 19 2004, 05:52 PM

I must admit I'm impressed by the maturity of this thread, don't see it often in forums recently.

Meh... mindless post but I'm tired and anything constructive just left me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you Septimus as far as the maturity regarding this informative thread. It's very beneficial to a person like me who is very new to these desktop applications and doesn't know much about anything except for Samurize and now what I've learned over the past couple of weeks in Avedesk 1.1. To be quite honest this thread has given me the itch to go try DesktopX 2.1 out and see what I think of it. I get the feeling that since it sounds like it is fairly easy to get everything working that it might be what is more suitable for a person like myself since I am struggling desperately to get the Sysstats side of Avedesk to work for me. Thanks to all for the very honest feedback pertaining to all of these apps.....

Nate Dogg

P.S. - Septimus.........is DesktopX where I can get that awesome iTunes skin that I couldn't shut up about in the App Skins section of the forum a few weeks ago???

#204534

Originally posted by deadzombie@Aug 20 2004, 12:44 AM

Here's the history of the matter.. AquaSoft owes alot to Brad and Stardock, and I think we've forgotten our roots. Thats ok, it happens. I've talked to Timan about it, and a few changes will occur shortley to correct this minor problem.

As for news posting, I don't see why news posters cant go hunt down news. It's not that much trouble to do, unless you're the only one doing the news. But no worries, things will be better soon. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

never said it didn`t owe to SD. As a matter of fact i said in my prev post that i have very high respect for guys at SD. As for newsposting, i think u know what the prob was/is ;)

#204537

Frogboy, can I suggest to really improve our experience (and everyones) with desktopx that you improve the DesktopX widget library?

I search through pages and pages, seeing more useless widgets. How about being able to filter widgets by rating (preferably staff)?

#204545

We're all on the same side here so hopefully everyone remembers that. ;)

I don't quite understand what Unbeliever is saying in how we're pushing DesktopX in some incorrect way.

I've made 3 posts: one lists some widgets that are available for DesktopX. That is *exactly* the same thing as the AveDesk widget news item. The second posts is one that has all of the developers talking about the pros and cons of each widget making program for the express purpose of promoting *all* of them. The third post is a "Show your DeskotpX desktops" post which again is *exactly* the same kidn of posts that is already in the AveDesk forum. I'm kind of feeling like there's a double standard but maybe I'm just not understanding.

I totally agree with Unbeliever that developers need to make their own news postings. But I don't know where to submit news to. I can submit it directly to DeadZombie but the http://www.aqua-soft.org/index.php/develop...k_what_s_coming seemed to be posted by Ave directly?

There's a lot of interesting stuff that we're working on, much of it free, that I'd love to post about.

Example: ObjectDock 1.04 (free) was just released this past week.

I've also ranted quite a bit about Dashboard on MacOS X. ;)

But again, we're all on the same side. I don't feel Aqua-Soft owes Stardock anything. Aqua-Soft has done a great deal for the community and I believe, as time goes on especially, that its importance will continue to grow as a friendly place.

After all, where else could all of us develoeprs get together and talk shop? The only thing that would make this place better is if we could get beer too.

#204546

'The only thing that would make this place better is if we could get beer too.'

Timan I trust youll sort that out for us ;)

#204552

I haven't really gotten into widgets (yet), so I'm kind of on the outside looking in. One difference I see between AveDesk and DesktopX is that A-S users created and are perpetuating most of the hype surrounding AD, whereas the only one trying to drum up hype about DX is its author. I hope DX will turn out to be everything he says it will, in much the same way that I hope ObjectDock will someday incorporate MobyDock's features. Choice is always a good thing, and it's nice to have several forms of each customizing utility in case development stops on one or more of them (think Y'z Dock and MobyDock).

In other words, I view DesktopX as more of a "back up," in case Andreas ever loses interest in the project or runs out of free time. I have yet to see a compelling reason to use DX. About the only things it can do that AD can't? Pac-Man. Pac-Man and Asteroids. (If there were any decent DesktopX widgets available before now, why did Brad wait until AveDesk became popular to start talking about the DX ones? His timing seems a little suspicious.)

I think it's only natural that programs like Samurize and AveDesk would garner more attention than something like DesktopX. They are 100% free, don't contain ads for other programs, and the odds are very good that they will remain free. Not only that, but because the developers code for no pay, the community feels a responsibility to tell and show them (by creating widgets) that their work is appreciated. Companies which charge for software have their efforts rewarded with cash.

Even if DesktopX turns out to be as good as AveDesk (again, I really hope it does), I find it very unlikely that it will ever be as popular:

1. Earlier versions left a bad taste in many users' mouths, mine included. I doubt that a large percentage are willing to give it a second chance. Users are more forgiving of Andreas because there's a personal relationship there (at least a "virtual" one).

2. Stardock is already hyping the upcoming release, so why should anyone else bother? Anyone starting topics about "DesktopX coming soon!" will most likely be greeted with "Old news. *yawn*"

3. AveDesk is free, and it's developed by someone who just wants to help out the community. I can't be the only one who suspects that the "free" version of DX will be riddled with ads for the Pro version (much like the new, "freeware" version of ObjectDock). Few people are stupid enough to believe that any company would give something away for free and not have an ulterior motive. There's nothing wrong with trying to make a buck, but why should anyone pay for a program when a free, equally useful alternative exists?

4. If AD can already do all of the important things that DX can, and the most talented people here are currently developing AveWidgets, why should anyone bother re-making them in DesktopX? There has to be a very good reason to do so. Will it save so much memory/CPU cycles that it would be worth the effort? Will it be more customizable? If both programs are roughly the same in terms of memory usage, speed, flexibility, stability, etc., then why switch? Why even use DX at all? It has to bring something new to the table, and so far I haven't seen that it does.

People don't want to turn this into an "us vs. them" kind of thing, but it really is just that. Developers and artists have only a finite amount of time to contribute to this community. Imagine the ensuing chaos if you needed DesktopX for the best iTunes widget, AveDesk for realistic Post-It notes, SysStats for the nicest weather widget, Samurize for something else, etc. In addition to the increased memory and resource overhead, you would have to install and maintain all of those apps. Worse yet, designers might be split into different "camps" instead of cooperating to produce the best widgets possible.

Users have to go where the design talent is, and right now that's AveDesk. Being "just as good as AveDesk" is just not good enough. I really think Stardock needs to emphasize what, if anything, sets DX apart.

#204617

Hi Mike, I'd like to address some points you made:

I have yet to see a compelling reason to use DX.

I don't quite understand this. You can download DesktopX, install it and never run it and still make use of the dozens of high quality widgets already made for it. There are a lot more widgets/objects for it than the others.

Also, it's not an either/or thing.

If there were any decent DesktopX widgets available before now, why did Brad wait until AveDesk became popular to start talking about the DX ones? His timing seems a little suspicious

How is it suspicious? As a regular user of Aqua-Soft since the very very beginning, I came on and noticed several news items touting AveDesk. I like AveDesk but how woudl you feel, if you've been making the same kinds of things for much longer but not seen anywhere near as much coverage here?

Even if DesktopX turns out to be as good as AveDesk (again, I really hope it does), I find it very unlikely that it will ever be as popular:

You should qualify that. DesktopX, today, is already mroe popular than all the others (including Konfabulator) combined in terms of # of users. It gets 10k plus downloads every week on CNet.

I'd argue that DesktopX 2.1 is "as good" as Avedesk. How do you define "good" though? There's nothing AveDesk does that DesktopX can't do and a lot that DesktopX can do that AveDesk doesn't. But that's not surprising since DesktopX isn't free -- it better do a lot more! ;)

Will DesktopX become more popular than AveDesk here on Aqua-Soft? That's hard to say, I doubt it though since DesktopX isn't free and the demographic on Aqua-Soft tends to be tilted towards not wanting to pay for desktop enhancement software.

2. Stardock is already hyping the upcoming release, so why should anyone else bother? Anyone starting topics about "DesktopX coming soon!" will most likely be greeted with "Old news. *yawn*"

Let me get this straight - two posts on the forum, one showing screenshots of desktops and one showing a sampling of widgets is "hyping" but several front page news items on AveDesk isn't?

3. AveDesk is free, and it's developed by someone who just wants to help out the community. I can't be the only one who suspects that the "free" version of DX will be riddled with ads for the Pro version (much like the new, "freeware" version of ObjectDock).

First off, ObjectDock is freeware and has no nags in it at all. So what are you talking about? Instead of being thankful that we, unlike the other docks, continue to develop the free dock you slam us for having a plus version? Sheesh. Secondly, define "riddled"? DesktopX is one of the most generous shareware programs out there. It's not crippled, it doesn't time out and it rarely nags.

You can download DesktopX 2.1 today and see for yourself. But you really seem to have an axe to grind.

4. If AD can already do all of the important things that DX can, and the most talented people here are currently developing AveWidgets, why should anyone bother re-making them in DesktopX? There has to be a very good reason to do so. Will it save so much memory/CPU cycles that it would be worth the effort? Will it be more customizable? If both programs are roughly the same in terms of memory usage, speed, flexibility, stability, etc., then why switch? Why even use DX at all? It has to bring something new to the table, and so far I haven't seen that it does.

What exactly have you "seen"? What are the "important things" that AD does in your view? I can't say what is important to you. I don't know.

Who says you need to switch at all? The whole point of widget programs is that you can mix and match the widgets seamlessly. DesktopX widgets are EXEs. You just have to have DesktopX installed on your system, and that's free.

We're not talking about an alternative shell or a GUI skinning application. These are widgets. It's like saying why should you switch to running programs compiled with Delphi to ones compiled by Visual Studio? Why should you care how the widget was made?

I really think before even getting into this discussion you should at least spend the 30 seconds on the DesktopX home page to find out what it does before coming on and thinking that it and AveDesk are basically the same thing. http://www.desktopx.net.

#204637

@Natedoog: Yes the iTunes widget is for DX2.1/2 .

You can find the Pack Here and the Exe Widget Here.

The Pack file loads 'into' DesktopX. The Exe widget just runs as long as you have DesktopX installed, it doesn't need to run.

Also, why can't people just mix and match what they want. My desktop uses Ave for my shortcut to drive icons (got to love sub/labels in real time) and things like InfoLine and Dashboard Datebook.

I use DX for having widgets such as iTunes/Winamp remotes or calculator (with Tiger graphics replacing the average ones supplied, very easy) all assigned to a hot key to make them visible when I want them.

If you don't want that, use what makes you happy or more productive and don't slam on something you haven't used in a long time, don't base on AveDesk 1.0 or DX1.2 or Samurize 0.6 etc.

#204663

OK

i`m going to try and explain myself since i keep being missunderstood on this whole matter.

I repeat that some mistakes were made with newsposting (the fact that some Stardock's releases deserved to be on the front page but weren't) and i will try to fix them. I am not doing that cause you said so, i`m doing it cause even though noone seems to care about newsposting and respects the newsposters, i`m trying to do what i agreed to do in as professional manner as i can. It seems that the only time i get contacted about news is when i unintentionally miss someone's release, and it actually should be the other way around. I`m not going to get in the middle of widget wars since i can`t be unbiased and i haven`t tested DX 2.2 but what i feel is that people here are just not used to the way you posted about DX. I`m not saying u did it in a bad way, i`m just saying that here at AquaSoft we're more used to a community aproach, than to a PR-like way u posted about DX. Again, your weren't spamming, flaming and nothing u did was technically wrong. However, communities are known for sticking together and feeling intruders as a threat. Ave is one of this community's most prominent members and people have probably seen ur posts as an attack on him, without paying much attention to what u said in ur posts. If your have contacted me or any other newsposter, i`m sure we could have posted about the coming release of DX 2.2, which would generate more hype over it and less controversy. I`m also against those users bashing ObjectDock Plus. If u read my posts in ObjectDock section i`ve always defended SD's decision to charge for it. ObjectDock is one of my favourite programs of all times and i`ve been using it for a long, long time. I`m also going to buy OD+, but for now, i`m not feeling any less satisfaction using ObjectDock. People are used (here) to free things and they feel betrayed when u release something they can`t get (for free). I think that was the only reason for bad comments on OD+. I hope u understand my position on this matter. If u feel that any of Stardock's programs that`s related to this community is being intentionally left out of the news, please PM me and i will personally post about it.

Peace,

A.

#204676

Originally posted by Septimus@Aug 20 2004, 09:29 AM

(with Tiger graphics replacing the average ones supplied, very easy)

Maybe the quality of some the the DX objects graphics would improve if those with more creative talent uploaded these "improvements" to WinCustomize.

I for one am delighted for people to improve my work with better graphics because that's something I'm just not good at :cry:

#204685

I just want to point out one thing, without stardock, well without Brad because he was the one to do it for us, Samurize would probably not exist anymore as we had huge problems to keep our community on our website and host their work (configs, skins etc..) even if samurize isnt on wincustomize they did a lot more than having a widget gallery on wincustomize for us, and Brad was always the one to do evetrything for us, not someone somewhere etc... so I would like everyone to understand that stardock is not that big of a company, that their CEO is an available and generous man, and that like many of us around he feeled a bit jealous when everything done on DX or other softs was replicated on AveDesk and everyone would move to it because it was on AveDesk.

I cant complain for samurize as we did get more than our share of exposure on AS, and AD is the prodigal child of AS so it seems quite normal to get that level of exposure, but well if only users would quit the "this sux" attitude everyone would be glad.

back to the original point what I want to say is Stardock is the source of inspiration for almost every customizing tool, even if it is indirect because they were the first to do a lot for win 32 and to start this trend of customizing everything and just for that they deserve respect, not "that suxx0r"

my 2 c

#204699

Originally posted by Alderaic@Aug 20 2004, 01:57 PM

[snip]t well if only users would quit the "this sux" attitude everyone would be glad.[snip

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

amen to that!

#204747

In my honest opinion people will love and hate whatever comes from any software company. Pending that they've tried it and that there are other solutions out there that can fit the bill. Stardock is a company afterall that looks to the customizing world to progress it's success. AveDesk, samuraize, and other widget based programs can do the same if not more pending on what the end user is looking for.

Personally I like the uses that Aves and Sam have brought to the table. DX is also a great choice if your looking for something more established in it's features. Surely because DX's popularity and broadbase in terms of the wincustomize community it's always going to grow faster than the other smaller by popularity programs. Not to take away from Aves and Sam and the other programs. They are all great. Features vary from program to program and the people using these programs enjoy using them because of either looks or features.

I've been proud for the past 4 or 5 years to see customizing grow to a very large base. People will have their own opinions about DX and what not. Currently I've enjoyed AveDesk and Sam as i only have a few widgets here and there, so i really have no complaints... just my own thoughts on the matter.

Enjoy. Unbeliever... i see your point most of the time. :D

#204755

Unbeliever: A "submit news" link on th ehome page of Aqua-Soft would probably help a lot. I don't think there's any intention to ignore anyone. On WinCustomize, the news is heavily about Stardock because third parties don't submit their news much. I suspect it's the same here. If you can create a submit news link, others will be able to send news submissions.

One thing I do want to point out: I've been part of the Aqua-Soft community since day 1 as DZ can tell you. I've been around here since the start.

It was I that got Aqua-Soft in Wired last Spring. And a lot of the other magazine publicity Aqua-Soft received was through our PR efforts. Do you think some magazine in Germany or CNet or art magazine in Japan knew who Aqua-Soft was? Aqua-Soft has "commercial" benefactors even if you don't know it -- us. You talk about community, I think I've done more than my share to help build that community.

So please don't refer to me as some sort of intruder.

And if you look at my account, I've been posting on this incarnation of this forum for over a year. I'm not some intruder. I've posted in the ObjectDock forum on occasion for a very long time.

I don't see how it's any different for me to post a list of widgets for DesktopX just lke the developers of widgets on Avedesk or other programs do the same thing. We don't sell these widgets. They're free to download.

You think that I'm being paid to hang out here at 2am? If DesktopX were totally freewae, I suspect you'd react very differently.

My point though is that I'm not some intruder, especially on Aqua-Soft. I've been around here since the start through its various incarnations. I think that some people around here have a real blind spot if the software isn't freeware. I doubt you or anyone else would have any problem with DesktopX if it were totally freeware (and it practically is freeware).

I can't imagine a freeware author who had been posting here for over a year and around the site in various forms for 3 years would get this sort of hostility some people here show towards me.

I suggest you go over to the AveDesk forum and look at the posts there and ignore who made them, just look at the posts and then come back here and do the same.

Anyway, I think you're a good guy, Unbeliever. I just think that there is a kind of distaste for commercial sofware development that tends to color the views of many people here.

It should be remembered that it is Stardock who makes the most popular freeware customization apps (BootSkin, LogonXP, ObjectDock, CursorXP to name 4). And those programs wouldn't be possible without the fact that someone pays for our other software.

The very nice cloud images that are in many third party widgets are either ripped (from Konfabulator) or provided *freely* by Stardock (and I can tell you those weather images weren't cheap to do).

It's not as simple as a "free is good" "commercial is evil". A lot of good comes from commercial software developers.

#204769

well i`m not the right person to talk about that. i`m just a puny earthling, ehm, newsposter i mean :P

Tim and the big boys (mods) are the ones to talk to. But if u ask me, it`d be a mistake (not cause of u Brad, but face it, there`s lots of pple that wouldn`t do it well ;) )

hope u didn`t get me wrong about all this. If u PM with news i`d post it :)

PS Is OD+ out of beta? If it is i need to emphasize that on the front page, since people are still confused.

#204774

Originally posted by Unbeliever@Aug 20 2004, 04:10 PM

well i`m not the right person to talk about that. i`m just a puny earthling, ehm, newsposter i mean :P

Tim and the big boys (mods) are the ones to talk to. But if u ask me, it`d be a mistake (not cause of u Brad, but face it, there`s lots of pple that wouldn`t do it well ;) )

hope u didn`t get me wrong about all this. If u PM with news i`d post it :)

PS Is OD+ out of beta? If it is i need to emphasize that on the front page, since people are still confused.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. 1.04 is a non-beta release for both ObjectDock and ObjectDock Plus.

Also, 1.04 fixes the video game issue people have had with objectdock since the start (it poppng up in full screen games). Or at least does here with DOOM 3. ;)

#204780

Originally posted by Frogboy@Aug 20 2004, 04:04 PM

Unbeliever: A "submit news" link on th ehome page of Aqua-Soft would probably help a lot.  I don't think there's any intention to ignore anyone.  On WinCustomize, the news is heavily about Stardock because third parties don't submit their news much.  I suspect it's the same here.  If you can create a submit news link, others will be able to send news submissions.

One thing I do want to point out: I've been part of the Aqua-Soft community since day 1 as DZ can tell you.  I've been around here since the start. 

It was I that got Aqua-Soft in Wired last Spring.  And a lot of the other magazine publicity Aqua-Soft received was through our PR efforts.  Do you think some magazine in Germany or CNet or art magazine in Japan knew who Aqua-Soft was? Aqua-Soft has "commercial" benefactors even if you don't know it -- us.  You talk about community, I think I've done more than my share to help build that community. 

So please don't refer to me as some sort of intruder.

And if you look at my account, I've been posting on this incarnation of this forum for over a year.  I'm not some intruder.  I've posted in the ObjectDock forum on occasion for a very long time.

I don't see how it's any different for me to post a list of widgets for DesktopX just lke the developers of widgets on Avedesk or other programs do the same thing.  We don't sell these widgets. They're free to download.

You think that I'm being paid to hang out here at 2am?  If DesktopX were totally freewae, I suspect you'd react very differently.

My point though is that I'm not some intruder, especially on Aqua-Soft. I've been around here since the start through its various incarnations.  I think that some people around here have a real blind spot if the software isn't freeware.  I doubt you or anyone else would have any problem with DesktopX if it were totally freeware (and it practically is freeware).

I can't imagine a freeware author who had been posting here for over a year and around the site in various forms for 3 years would get this sort of hostility some people here show towards me. 

I suggest you go over to the AveDesk forum and look at the posts there and ignore who made them, just look at the posts and then come back here and do the same. 

Anyway, I think you're a good guy, Unbeliever.  I just think that there is a kind of distaste for commercial sofware development that tends to color the views of many people here. 

It should be remembered that it is Stardock who makes the most popular freeware customization apps (BootSkin, LogonXP, ObjectDock, CursorXP to name 4).  And those programs wouldn't be possible without the fact that someone pays for our other software.

The very nice cloud images that are in many third party widgets are either ripped (from Konfabulator) or provided *freely* by Stardock (and I can tell you those weather images weren't cheap to do). 

It's not as simple as a "free is good" "commercial is evil".  A lot of good comes from commercial software developers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent points Frogboy. As I have stated before, I've been feeling of late that AquaSoft has strayed from it's roots. One of the standards AquaSoft has always tried to maintain is a friendly enviroment to all legitimate developers.

You, Jeff & Jeff were the first true developrs to get really excited about the community here. You've supported us with contests, news and media exposure. You have even confronted Apple once or twice (and lived I might add)!

Who here knows why Object Dock came into being? Was it just Stardock trying to squeeze a few more pennies out of the community? Of course not - it came from a certain CEO's love of Aqua customization, and his desire to give to the community. Stardock continues this tradition by offering free versions of almost all their skinning software.

There are just a few degrees of seperation between all of the developers here. Frogboy started up a wildly successful company that has influenced the development of Windows GUI at the highest levels! Frogboy, like Judge, of Alilm or AndreasV still visits the forums when he can and interacts with the community. I hope that someday when Judge and AndreasV have their own wildly successful company they still find time to come say hello, without fear of being verbally attacked. :D

#204805

Originally posted by _Martin_@Aug 20 2004, 10:17 AM

Maybe the quality of some the the DX objects graphics would improve if those with more creative talent uploaded these "improvements" to WinCustomize.

I for one am delighted for people to improve my work with better graphics because that's something I'm just not good at  :cry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry _Martin_ that wasn't directed at you, it was a careless generalisation. My apologies.

I was using your iTunes widget as an example of use and any calc you can download as another. I didn't know you had done one, so definately not what I meant. :(

#204806

I smell a Widget contest in the works, and it smells tasty indeed!

Imagine an all inclusive contest, for new widgets only, that spanned across DesktopX, Samurize, Kapsules, AveDesk 1.1 and SysStats. We could theme the contest as a tribute to the mighty "Apple Dashboard vs. Konfabulator War" thats happening on the other side of the OS fence.

Any ideas guys? Who wants to go find some prizes for this?

#204810

Originally posted by _Martin_@Aug 20 2004, 03:17 AM

Maybe the quality of some the the DX objects graphics would improve if those with more creative talent uploaded these "improvements" to WinCustomize.

I for one am delighted for people to improve my work with better graphics because that's something I'm just not good at  :cry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is something I have been doing but didn't want to upload as I figured it'd be best if I keep them as personal use only as to avoid conflicts.

P.S. I never did figure out a certain thing (time in MM:SS instead of just seconds for elapsed time) I wanted to put into my itunes widget.

Oh yeah and good job on the world clocks they work pretty good (been editing those too).

BTW, I think it's pretty much a fact that (not for me thoug) being free is the requirement around here for something being considered good or not. Not features or things like that. So then the software gets into this loop of people here not wanting to download it because it's shareware so then not as many things are made for it which causes people to not download it. And then people make claims based on previous versions which they might have even used on Win9x which wasn't so good for customisation (that may be an understatement).

I myself don't mind supporting a shareware developer if they produce software that has the features I want. So for me it goes kind of like the following with the priority of features over whether it's freeware or not:

Freeware=has to have more features than commercial\shareware, a developer that listens to users of their software is a plus. But I don't like the whole if you get freeware you have to just nod and smile. But oh well I can put myself in their shoes and see how they are doing it as a hobby which is just for fun and sometimes putting in things is not fun and starting something compeletly new is.

Commercial\Shareware=ditto about the features compared to freeware, but I feel that the developer MUST listen to their customers as they have paid for the software so I think that buys the right to be listened to especially if freeware developers won't. At least some aknowledgement that they have read what the user has to say and are considering it. Plus good documentation is a plus. Not that I'm accusing anyone it's just what I think.

#204825

Originally posted by Septimus@Aug 20 2004, 05:56 PM

Sorry _Martin_ that wasn't directed at you, it was a careless generalisation.  My apologies.

I was using your iTunes widget as an example of use and any calc you can download as another.  I didn't know you had done one, so definately not what I meant.  :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey no worries. Sorry if my use of bold and quotes suggested this. I am genuine in what I say, I know that my graphics suck and really, really really would be happy for people to upload new visually improved versions of my work. Mentions are nice but not necessary.

#204835

Originally posted by Frogboy+Aug 20 2004, 06:04 PM-->
QUOTE(Frogboy @ Aug 20 2004, 06:04 PM)
[snip] So please don't refer to me as some sort of intruder.

And if you look at my account, I've been posting on this incarnation of this forum for over a year.  I'm not some intruder.  I've posted in the ObjectDock forum on occasion for a very long time.

[snip]

It should be remembered that it is Stardock who makes the most popular freeware customization apps (BootSkin, LogonXP, ObjectDock, CursorXP to name 4).  And those programs wouldn't be possible without the fact that someone pays for our other software.

The very nice cloud images that are in many third party widgets are either ripped (from Konfabulator) or provided *freely* by Stardock (and I can tell you those weather images weren't cheap to do). 

It's not as simple as a "free is good" "commercial is evil".  A lot of good comes from commercial software developers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well it seems that despite all my good will to explain u my point u just didn`t get it (or haven`t read my posts). In my last few posts i NEVER mentioned freeware VS payware. I defended OD+ initiative, i posted about it in the news, i tried to be cooperative and offer my help with future releases and news but it looks like u just don`t get it. I know that u`ve been a member much longer than me, i know that u pushed AS and that u probably contributed in ways that are not even known by regular members but i don`t deserve this kind of preaching. I care a lot about this community, i met some of my best "online" freinds here, i devoted lots of my free time to it and now i feel like a bad kid being spanked. This thing has gone over the line and i hope it's concequences won`t be as bad as i fear. I`m going to message Tim and let him know i`m quitting newsposter position. Good luck with DX 2.2 Brad and let other newsposters do a better job than i did (no, i`m not being sarcastic, i really mean it)

#204839

Originally posted by Unbeliever@Aug 20 2004, 06:37 PM

well it seems that despite all my good will to explain u my point u just didn`t get it (or haven`t read my posts). In my last few posts i NEVER mentioned freeware VS payware. I defended OD+ initiative, i posted about it in the news, i tried to be cooperative and offer my help with future releases and news but it looks like u just don`t get it. I know that u`ve been a member much longer than me, i know that u pushed AS and that u probably contributed in ways that are not even known by regular members but i don`t deserve this kind of preaching. I care a lot about this community, i met some of my best "online" freinds here, i devoted lots of my free time to it and now i feel like a bad kid being spanked. This thing has gone over the line and i hope it's concequences won`t be as bad as i fear. I`m going to message Tim and let him know i`m quitting newsposter position. Good luck with DX 2.2 Brad and let other newsposters do a better job than i did (no, i`m not being sarcastic, i really mean it)

No prize is worth a freindship. Good luck to you all guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would you quit? :rant:

Look, it's ok if we disagree! :woot: Expect a zombie PM in a few minutes... >.<

#204843

Why don't you all learn to disagree?

Ok, you people really need to sit down, relax and chill the hell out.

Unbeliever has not been impolite or aggressive at ANY point; in fact, he has said more than once the fact that he is willing to improve and listen to your input. He has in fact apologized for missing the release (Which he shouldn't have, there are other newsposters and he is human)

If you people can't sit down and read things twice if you didnt get the meaning -looks like you didn't- then bear with the possibility that your replies might be totally out of place.

Frogboy, unbeliever is not saying free is good and pay is bad. I can assure you he is not that type of person. What he tried to put across is that you may seem like an intruder (trust me, the bigger percentage of the community here doesn't know who you are, it shouldn't surprise you. Most of the people here dont even know who Jeff or Jef are, to start you there) and that people would rather stick to a free app from an active community developer than have to pay for someone that doesn't post as much here (Again, im talking about the majority, not saying that is right nor am i undermining your community support/help throughout the time) this is a normal effect of people not having much money + ignorance + blind fanatism and some egoism all thrown into a blender.

I cant believe that someone posting "i dont like desktopx" on the frontpage has made this turmoil. Trust me, that person couldnt care less about anything that is being discussed here, why pay attention to him? huh? Did your mothers never tell you about not listening to others flamebait?

Im closing this as it is just getting out of hand, You have all expressed your views, tried to explain the others your personal opinions and that's that, we all have opinions and its is just foolish to think all will agree to them.

Unbeliever, dont quit newsposting because of this.. you are the most important newsposter we have at the moment.

@DZ: this topic was screaming hey, i want people to get an opinionated discussion here. You should know theres not such a thing as a civilized discussion here at A-S

----------------------------

The Topic Has Been Closed

// Seph

#204851

Originally posted by Seph@Aug 20 2004, 07:09 PM

Why don't you all learn to disagree?

...

Unbeliever, dont quit newsposting because of this.. you are the most important newsposter we have at the moment.

@DZ: this topic was screaming hey, i want people to get an opinionated discussion here. You should know theres not such a thing as a civilized discussion here at A-S

----------------------------

The Topic Has Been Closed

// Seph

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the lack of civilized discussion must change. AquaSoft IS BETTER than this. Good post Seph. :)

#204861