Minium° Inspiriat

I am starting a topic on my own work because there has been some controversy about them. People at GFXOasis seem to have a strong feeling that I completely ripped off Sascha. I respect Sascha as much as any of you (as you saw if you pmmed me about getting the MINIUM° icons I made). I told you that I respect Sascha, and I will not send anyone icons because I feel that would rip him off. Now this release I am questioning after seeing some people thinking about it more. As I said at GFXOasis, people have said that even using the name is copyright. Yet I do not believe that Sascha has copyright on the name (yet). People think that just using the name is wrong, but you can read below for more information. Not only this, but I have found a FEW examples of similar releases/projects that have not had this much attention on copyright and legality. Please think of these as you think of my release.

I have absolutely nothing against what the below artists/programmers/etc. did at all, these are just examples. In fact, most of the below people I have HIGH RESPECT for.

Konfabulator-like iTunes widget for AveTunes on AveDesk: http://www.aqua-soft.org/board/index.php?showtopic=20042

Permisson was not granted as the creator of this AveTunes skin remade every image himself.

LunaVX by Dazza:

Permission was not granted from Microsoft even though "Luna" is a copyrighted name by Microsoft.

World of Aqua icons by Dave Brasgalla:

Permission was not granted from Apple as Dave recreated Aqua to his liking and released.

and finally

Longhorn Inspiriat by StefanKa:

Permission was not granted from Microsoft to use its concepts and use the name "Longhorn" even though it is a copyrighted name by Microsoft.

This is not a complete list, as this is what customizing is! We have all sorts of ideas, and each one has sprouted from something else. It is called being "inspired". People are inspired by others to create something of their own, yet using aspects they have seen or learned from each other. The above people and myself are FANS of the work and would like to reproduce certain things as inspired works of others.

Timmie, I know you will read this, and no this is not a slam in your face for what you have done for me in being on my side as I DID NOT release the accurate MINIUM° icons.

And one last thing. People have been saying things like "if he is so talented, why doesn't he do this?" It really is getting on my nerves. I don't want to brag, but to get my point across, most all of you have seen my work and know that I work hard, just as ANYONE in the customizing community, and that I do a good job. All they need to do is go looking in my deviation gallery at deviantART and see that I have skills just as well as others have skills in other areas.

Please take my ideas into consideration and please tell me if this really is a rip or not.

Please do NOT post here saying "OMFG MAN U ****ING RIPPED HIM OFF!!!!!11one"...

// Lou

#202322

Sascha's:

I did NOT release:

I did release:

Link to GFXOasis thread. They even suspended my account there.

GFX Oasis topic

(they seem to think rotating the folder is easy to do. they must think i just used a 3d image and rotated. they, i guess, dont know that i redid the icons in photoshop.)

// Lou

#202324

I would say if you made it all yourself it's not a rip..

I can't see why so many people would think it's a rip.

#202328

Your icons are well made and they're really good, but the only difference being the perspective, I consider this a rip. Just my opinion.

#202329

Am I the only one who don't give a **** about it anymore ?

#202331

Oh my god, if I hear one more complaint about copyright infringement...

There's an expression you should think about:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Every single person here has committed some form of copyright infringement. Apple in no way gave us permission to steal their icons, Finder bars, docks, and just about every facet of the Mac OS. So stop rabble-rousing and chill out.

Lou, go ahead and release what you want. If it's an actual copyright concern, you'll be politely notified.

To the rest of you: stop b*tching.

[edit] No, Andreas, you are not. [/edit]

#202333

Personally after reviewing the GFXo thread.. there are many responses pretaining to that you've ripped them. Here at A-S i don't think you've ripped them at all.. most of the people here at A-S who have voices over at GFXo have been defending you as an artist.

I have seen your work quite often and have used them several times. Lou your skills have matured since i've first seen your earlier works. Good for you for sharing your work to the public.

I also think that hearing Sascha's side of the story would validate, what the both of you have agreed to in terms of the distribution. Yes i know they aren't exactly alike but i'm sure it would clear the air over at GFXo

Awesome work, keep doing what your doing. Your hardwork will pay off.

#202335

I deff. agree with you Lou. I have watched your works for a while and you do have talent. I believe that you do respect Sacsha and are not trying to rip or commit copyright infringement.

#202338

NO i did a rework of reluna all the graphics colour the lot and got completely slated for it so screw other peoples opinions, unless the creator of where you got your inspiration comes forward and says your taking the piss i don't believe anyone can call it a rip.

#202339

Lou, I think your icons are really great and I respect you so much that you had the idea to remake this amazing icons of Sascha. But - He created them and he release them (hopefully soon!!! ) otherwise you made a really interesting alternative.

Is there somebody who knows what Sascha is doing at the moment and if yes, please ask him when he will provide his fantastic theme or his icons.

I don't understand why everybody has to ask for every permission to release something.

I think Apple, Microsoft and all other companys have got their copyrights.

Let's think of an alternative. Or what do you think about?

#202340

Whoa, holy crap kaos is at it again (sigh). Although I respect their decision over there, that doesn't make it right. If you made them yourselft (which I know you did) I don't think there is a problem since the icons aren't really like sascha's, but would have personally released these after he did. It's kinda a respect thing. Also having the copyright on the name, I don't see the problem either, but just change it. I wouldn't hurt you or anyone else.

Lou I for one don't think you did anything wrong

#202345

I just want to point out that no one at Neowin is complaining.

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=203329

edit: I spoke too soon.

// Lou

#202348

I haven't posted on here in a long while, but I feel that, while your work is nice, you probably should have respected Sascha's "idea" and design enough to ask for permission before making an inspiring work like this.

That said, his design idea is much more radical than standard jaguar folders, so making these is more of a fun way to have them until the real ones come out. If anything, it only amps the inticipation.

#202350

this was definitaly a rip: :staffs here:

http://www.aqua-soft.org/board/index.php?showtopic=20426

But for your release, where is the problem? >.<

Ask Sasha if you can release this or not!

#202354

Not too long ago, deadzombie posted a thread concerning what he termed as the "dreaded copyright argument" which I think is apt to apply here. There are a number of people who are angered by this icon set because you have not shown respect to Sascha, the little guy, so to speak. As such, raising the point that most of us are either ripping Microsoft or Apple is not, in my opinion, a valid point.

Now, imagine this. You spent a couple of days or even a few weeks brainstorming and finally coming up with an original icon set concept. You create a sample set exhibiting this concept and showcase it at your webpage. You even gave the set a name. You get swarmed with work (which puts food on the table) and cannot find time out to finish work on this freeware set. A few weeks pass. You are suddenly informed that there is a person who is distributing an extremely similar looking and named icon set, with a few adjustments (eg. perspective). How would you honestly feel? Disrespected? Disheartened? Maybe even angry?

It is such things that may have prompted little guys like Hein and pixeljerk to give up making beautiful freeware icon sets. We should hope and ensure that such a trend doesn't continue, don't you think?

#202355

Inspiried. (I'm not trying to start a flame-war.)

MINIUM°. (If anything, it's advertisement for Sascha.)

Hence, MINIUM° Inspiriat. (Yea, I stole the word "Inspiriat" from Stefanka, and that is the only thing I will admit that I "stole".)

// Lou

#202357

:cry:

no, its the concept.

#202360

Operating Systems

Instant Messengers

Web Browsers

I just named three distinct things that multiple companies have made. Concept? Can you really copyright concept?

// Lou

soda, internet services, mice, keyboards, monitors, mp3 players...

cameras, speakers, printers...

wait...hm...

coffee, burgers, hot dogs, tacos...

doesn't even have to be computer related...

you CANNOT copyright concept.

#202362

Originally posted by hush66@Aug 14 2004, 11:31 AM

Not too long ago, deadzombie posted a thread concerning what he termed as the "dreaded copyright argument" which I think is apt to apply here. There are a number of people who are angered by this icon set because you have not shown respect to Sascha, the little guy, so to speak. As such, raising the point that most of us are either ripping Microsoft or Apple is not, in my opinion, a valid point.

Now, imagine this. You spent a couple of days or even a few weeks brainstorming and finally coming up with an original icon set concept. You create a sample set exhibiting this concept and showcase it at your webpage. You even gave the set a name. You get swarmed with work (which puts food on the table) and cannot find time out to finish work on this freeware set. A few weeks pass. You are suddenly informed that there is a person who is distributing an extremely similar looking and named icon set, with a few adjustments (eg. perspective). How would you honestly feel? Disrespected? Disheartened? Maybe even angry?

It is such things that may have prompted little guys like Hein and pixeljerk to give up making beautiful freeware icon sets. We should hope and ensure that such a trend doesn't continue, don't you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with hush. it's sascha's original idea. it's his own. you just took his idea and released it before he did. don't hide behind the fact that you say you were 'inspired' by him. who cares? release your own 'inspired' set after he releases his own. dork.

#202364

Oh, and you all know me not to be a ripper

You all know I do my work in PS by myself

Just lettin' ya know

// Lou

#202367

Originally posted by Lou@Aug 14 2004, 11:47 AM

Operating Systems

Instant Messengers

Web Browsers

I just named three distinct things that multiple companies have made.  Concept?  Can you really copyright concept?

// Lou

soda, internet services, mice, keyboards, monitors, mp3 players...

cameras, speakers, printers...

wait...hm...

coffee, burgers, hot dogs, tacos...

doesn't even have to be computer related...

you CANNOT copyright concept.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but you can copyright graphics etc... Pepsi may be able to make a product that tastes just like coke... but could they make their can look just like cokes can when viewed froma different angle? Like maybe the could make the lettering run at a different angle than coke. Of course they would design the can themesleves and not copy any of cokes work. Or maybe wendys chould change its logo to the mcdonalds logo, but just rotate it 90 degrees to the left. Again having there designers "recreate" it.

Lou, I am not against what you have done. You are a great artist and you know that I respect your work. But I do feel like you disrepsected sacha by not even mentioning his name or bothering to ask him for permission. You cant do what you have done and expect people to just be happy about it. While you didnt technically rip anyone because you made them yourself, you still toook someones idea and released it as your own. I know this is something that we do all the time, I do it with visual styles but before releasing them I have to contact max or whoever else came up with the original idea before relaseing. I hope that you can understand what I am trying to say. Keep up the good work mate.... I do enjoy it. Just in the future try to see things from another persons perspective.

An example is that you let me use your yztoolbar panther icons for a windowblinds skin. I could have remade all the graphics from "scratch" and made it into my own windoblinds toolbar and never have asked your permission after all I would have done all the work myself. But I have to much repsect for people to do that. Which is why I asked first. Just look at it from a creators point of view. You would have been pissed.

You have gotten mad about things in the past that others have used of yours. matrix...

blah blah blah I know I am babbling now... I hope this makes sense.

take care...

lou you can get me on msn if you want to chat about any of this.

good work on the icons though...

#202375

Originally posted by Lou@Aug 14 2004, 11:57 AM

Oh, and you all know me not to be a ripper

You all know I do my work in PS by myself

Just lettin' ya know

// Lou

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if we ALL know, why are you "lettin'" us know?

you're using one definition of a rip. maybe you didn't rip the actual graphics, because there are hardly any, but you ripped the concept. clear and simple.

#202376

i will ask sasha. he is my neighbor :naughty:

#202379

Dammit.... I am seriously fed up with this....

Here is what i think...

I wouldn't consider this a rip per se, a rip as it is usually known but just irrespectful. (im talking about the minium inspirat)

There are two reasons that lead me to think this way.

1.- The name... You used the exact same name, same font, same color, just added an "inspirat there". Even if he didnt go to the patents department and registered it as a logo/trademark, using the same name to this extent is emulating the "Brand" name (again, even if it isnt registered)

2.- The timing... You released a tightly inspired set of icons of an UNRELEASED set. The keyword here is unreleased. The main point of a teaser is create expectation, rise up hits to your site to see if its already released, get the name spread on its expectation, typical and basic marketing tool to guarantee a successful launch. By you releasing a set of icons that even if you made from scratch are named the same and look the same (no, im not saying they are the same, they are just the same concept, different angle.) you have watered the flames of the expectation that sascha had created and hence, ruining his (surely successful) release.

Remember that a name is more than just words when you are trying to promote a product/service.

Remember also that the fact that you made them from scratch doesn't mean it cant be considered a rip. Aren't copy watches considered pirated copies (aka rips) of their originals? but they have been made from scratch, far away from the omega/rolex/rado factory.

What i think is that you shouldn't have done this for the above reasons, it is just irrespectful towards sascha. The problem is that it is done, and thus, the best thing i could propose is you dont release anything minium until sascha has released the originals and then, with proper permission from him, release whatever additions you want to make to his set of icons.

I dont consider you a ripper Lou, you know i don't. but as i told you when i saw the release over MSN, i think it wasn't the right thing to do. Aqua soft is built around artists like sascha, like you like all of the talented artists we are blessed with here... we need to protect one another and if you read my reasons carefully youll see that they are just that, reasonable.

-----------------

The Topic Has Been Closed

// Seph

#202380