Let's Work On Bettering Memory Issues.

Ok, so we all want to make our PC's look and feel more like Mac's, right?

Ok, then. With all the genious's hiding out here, (and making silly references about 'cojones') I think it's about time we face a big problem.

Memory issues.

In order to actually make our PC's look and feel the most like a Mac, we have to run oodles of apps.

1.) Aqua App's

a. Finder

b. Volume

c. Browser

d. Mail

e. About this Mac

f. iTalk

2.) Stardock

a. DesktopX

b. WindowBlinds

c. ObjectDock

d. WindowFX

e. ObjectBar

3.) Y'z App's

a. Dock

b. Shadow

c. Toolbar

4.) xApps

a. xAbout

b. xHotspot

MobyDock

LiteStep Dock

Phoenix/Mozilla/Opera skinned

Rainlender

iBlink

Samurize

and don't forget...

ALL the system files hacked and added to

This makes a system unusable no matter what your config.

How can we fix this?

Can we make ObjectBar an explorer replacement? And would that help?

Can we use the system priorities to improve behavior?

I don't know, but it seems to me a lost cause. It's nearly impossible to have all of that running, and still be able to utilize your system for work/fun/gaming/media production.

Ideas, people. JUST ideas. No boring/obnoxious/senseless/mundane posts, or I'll delete them.

Let's get this ball rolling.

#16492

How about this?

Jef incorporates ALL the AquaApps into one executable with access to all their features thru his finder bar or a way to access them in Objectbar...

This is what I mean by ideas...new and different ways of improving our dilemna.

For that matter, why not start incorporating ALL the various apps into one package? Like for effects, we combine iBlink, a shadow app, and so on...

#16493

The new objectbar 1.55 or 1.6 cuts down on memory usage, and my computer is now functioning much more effectively with the new version.

#16499

(hopes duckies doesnt delete my post)

I was thinking about an installer package that installs almost all these programs, dlls, and its in a nice installer thing with settings as to isntall object dock or yz dock etc so you can format anywhere and boom install aqua.

Sometimes iget this "urge" to make my desktop minimal as possible, including new icon set, new dlls, new theme, everything. It would be hella nice if there is a way to turn on and turn off aqua, know wat im saying? One click all aqua, one click all something else.

#16502

hmm my system with standard xp shows 57 mb pf usage in task manager,... with all the aqua stuff it shows 83 mb (all upon fresh boot) I dont know its not too bad,... i have "only" 320mb.

#16513

Originally posted by Three Drives@Mar 6 2003, 09:41 PM

hmm my system with standard xp shows 57 mb pf usage in task manager,... with all the aqua stuff it shows 83 mb (all upon fresh boot) I dont know its not too bad,... i have "only" 320mb.

Well, I'm running an AMD Thunderbird 1ghz with 392mb in ram and it drags my system with ALL of those items I have listed.

Maybe your not running that much stuff?

#16514

On a typical day I usually have these running:

WindowBlinds

Objectbar

YzDock

YzShadow

YzToolbar (though as soon as the code gets put into WB4 to skin the toolbars I'm not running this anymore).

Those give me pretty much what I want. I have 320mb of ram and I have, IE, The Manor, and Miranda ICQ open and I have 165mb left of memory which I don't think is bad. I don't use any of the "aqua apps" because they have a theme hard coded. And I don't use any of those tiny programs because I don't need them. Though, if "xmount" ever gets released I'd use it.

BTW, Stardock is making something called "MCP" which supposed to help, it manages how things startup to make it faster and even manages system hooks from the various programs that take advantage of it.

BTW, some of those apps you listed provide functions similar to other apps in the list, there is no need to run them ALL, especially at once.

#16515

Yeah, with those, I have no problem either.

But my preference, Since I use a real Mac too, is to utilize ALL the apps I listed for the full effect.

#16517

Yes indeed Duckie, we need a new 'shell like', I think that is the only way to avoid the memory and cpu lag...

As u said, we have a lot of genius here. The only thing we need is that they work together in one big proyect.

The trouble isn't the way but the content of the package itself. I can do an Iceman dll's, Moby/Yz/OD or whatever u want installer and the system still laging.

The original idea of 'Aqua Controls' is the only real way. Apple centralize all his power on top of some resources that all apps will use to do their job. Microsoft do the same job but in a 'less practical way' or 'redudancy way' but 'more compatible way' called 'dll'. If u look inside any Mac app, they have only their fuctions not their 'look', the core system do the 'look job'. Something like XP introduced with his new way of skining, but, flawlessly on a Mac. ie. Safari own his resources: some pictures of buttons and lots of api lines ONLY, then, the Mac core know where/when to put those resources.

Imagine this: one Open Source project focused in the way of create a set of little 'core' apps. Core's job bring a 'look interface' only. All other apps take their resources from 'core'. This way we can eliminate redundacy, the first gulty of memory and cpu lag. BTW we need unification as well: only one dock, shadow, about, browser, bar and so on, but this the hard part of business -colors and tastes-

We don't need to do an 'operative system' but a 'look system' in a 'compact - non redudancy' way with disk access and not the 'all on memory at same time' old way. An 'smart look system' : "hmmm u r trying to load OpenDock... let us charge ONLY the 'selective dock core' on memory" beautiful dream, eh?

P.S.: remember that I am latin guy so my English may (indeed) sounds like tarzan

#16529

I would have to agree with Duckie on this matter. We have come very close to achieving the real "feel" of a mac. Well, we still could get closer, but the point is we are using many, many seperate programs and applications at the same time to perform this.

If we could get the whole thing into one program or at least combine certain applications, like Duckie said, we would be a lot better off, and the whole ordeal would be a heck of a lot less complicated.

Plus, for us gamers who use our PC's for apps other than ie and mozilla and outlook, whenever we launch a game we dont want to have to end 10 programs using end task just to play our game. Lets get organized here, and lets get simple. I like the sound of that!

#16542

Originally posted by Duckie@Mar 6 2003, 07:46 PM

How about this?

Jef incorporates ALL the AquaApps into one executable with access to all their features thru his finder bar or a way to access them in Objectbar...

This is what I mean by ideas...new and different ways of improving our dilemna.

For that matter, why not start incorporating ALL the various apps into one package?  Like for effects, we combine iBlink, a shadow app, and so on...

Duckie,

I've talked with Jeff Bargman on how to get my Aqua Apps to work with ObjectBar. I can do it all via API, but it's a lot of work to get it going. I may be able to put that on my plate soon enough though.

#16544

Plus, for us gamers who use our PC's for apps other than ie and mozilla and outlook, whenever we launch a game we dont want to have to end 10 programs using end task just to play our game. Lets get organized here, and lets get simple. I like the sound of that!

By the moment ON and OFF may work well for all of you

The only you need to change is the app's rute and make shorcuts of all apps in their folders (ie. yzdock.exe -> yzdock.exe.lnk in the same folder) Of course, you may use some programs that i don't use at all, just add in the same way

Look at structure of these batch files, they works fine for me: outlook/phtoshop/cstrike guy and very fast too

OFF in OD and ON in Quick launch bar.

P.S.: maybe a script could be faster than a batch file, but for the moment I don't know how to write those scripts . Someday I was a programmer, a long time ago...

#16567

Duckie,... I use

Od

y's shadow

ss 2.5

all of icemans system .dll's

So yeah minimal aqua I guess, but I think one of the greatest hogs are the 72 and 128x128 icons in EVERY system .dll. That takes the piss.

("rips the ****" for you yanks)

#16572

There are a few things I do to maximize the number of customizations and minimize memory use. As I am not a Mac user my goal is not to totally replicate OSX but maybe some of this will help those with memory issues. My system is a P4 1.7Ghz (running at about 1.8Ghz) w/256mgs RAM (rambus 400mhz).

First, I use an Nvidia graphics card so I can use Nview, which provides for a lot of great window features like rollup (windowshade), transparency (available as a toggle and while dragging windows), multiple desktop management, and hotkey assignments. For all that it, right now (and Ive been running for about a week without reboot but with lots of loading and unloading so any leaks would prob be reflected i this) it costs me a whopping 1,748k, plus another 300k for the Nvidia driver helper which I dont think is even necessary to run. Not bad at all.

For dock I use YzDock. I ran Moby, ObjectDock, and YzDock separately and together and found YzDock to take the least memory. It is sucking up a mere 4,804k and that is with nice icons and a background.

I still don't understand why I find so many XP users running StyleXP or even WINDOWBLINDS! It's all about replacing the uxtheme.dll file! The memory overhead is zero as far as I can tell. However, depending on the skin used there is some not so obvious memory usage increase by the system relative to Luna, but sometimes it can actually be a decrease too.

I gave up on YzShadow. It's a great little program but here and there I had problems with it, and it did cost somewhere under 5000k in memory usage.

I just recently switched to Opera for my browser, and what can I say, except I am in love. And since it opens multiple web pages in one application container, it uses less memory than Internet Explorer for heavy browsing.

I've just recently been checking out the Aqua Controls, and there are a number of other programs that are running on occasion or I'm just testing now. So I can't comment on any of these yet but the stuff above I've been consistent with for a while now.

I do my own system .dll file modications with Restorator, just FYI. Also for Icon conversions (including mac<->pc) I use this awesome alpha level program Icon Librarian (http://users.pandora.be/liontech) that answers all my icon prayers. Everything else, even the more popular programs, fell short of the mark.

Anyway I went of on a tangent with those last two plugs, but hope this helps someone eek out another few megs.

#17199

Changing thread Priority really helps for me. If you make the apps that need quick responses (shadow,docks), it makes everything run smoother. I have 256MB of RAM and at bootup, i have about 110MB free

#17233

I wasn't going to say anything but I'll bite. Visual styles don't just use uxtheme.dll to load up a theme. They use the themes service and uxtheme which is *still* extra over classic. Just because the themes service had been set by default to run even when you are not using a visual style that doesn't mean it doesn't use any extra memory (compared to classic).

You can disable that service if you don't use visual styles. Classic *does not* use the themes service *or* uxtheme.dll.

If you use other theme changers also, you can disable the themes service. So that way the other theme changer wouldn't be using any extra memory on top of the memory that the themes service was taking by default (depending on complexity of skin of course).

#17241

Smoke, youve been saying this for months and I remembered how come no one else seems to?

#17243

Originally posted by |2uso@Mar 7 2003, 09:21 PM

Plus, for us gamers who use our PC's for apps other than ie and mozilla and outlook, whenever we launch a game we dont want to have to end 10 programs using end task just to play our game. Lets get organized here, and lets get simple. I like the sound of that!

By the moment ON and OFF may work well for all of you

The only you need to change is the app's rute and make shorcuts of all apps in their folders (ie. yzdock.exe -> yzdock.exe.lnk in the same folder) Of course, you may use some programs that i don't use at all, just add in the same way

Look at structure of these batch files, they works fine for me: outlook/phtoshop/cstrike guy and very fast too

OFF in OD and ON in Quick launch bar.

Will you expain these .bat files a little more? It sounds like something i've been wanting - to be able to turn my system tray items on and off all at once when installing apps or playing games.

#17279

Originally posted by smoke@Mar 13 2003, 08:52 PM

I wasn't going to say anything but I'll bite. Visual styles don't just use uxtheme.dll to load up a theme. They use the themes service and uxtheme which is *still* extra over classic. Just because the themes service had been set by default to run even when you are not using a visual style that doesn't mean it doesn't use any extra memory (compared to classic). 

You can disable that service if you don't use visual styles. Classic *does not* use the themes service *or* uxtheme.dll.

If you use other theme changers also, you can disable the themes service. So that way the other theme changer wouldn't be using any extra memory on top of the memory that the themes service was taking by default (depending on complexity of skin of course).

You're right, smoke, but isn't uxtheme.dll the "cheapest" (in terms of memory/cpu usage) method to have visual styles?

By the way, I think the whole idea of "Aquafication" is more a matter of CPU rather than memory consumption. Docks raise processor use up to 100%, and Yz Shadow doesn't feel very "smooth" at times.

As for AquaApps, I think they have a long way before they become tempting. It's great that they've come this far, but their look is hard-coded and it's hard to compete against their respective apps (windows explorer, outlook, trillian...).

Have a nice day all!

Ken

#17292

Will you expain these .bat files a little more? It sounds like something i've been wanting - to be able to turn my system tray items on and off all at once when installing apps or playing games.

Yup, those little batchs do the work all we need (for the moment) in a rudimentary way: with ON.bat you can turn on all ur visual effects (Yz/OD/Moby, YzShadow/WindowFx, YzToolbar, OB, DesktopX and so on) all you need is to write the correct path for those apps. When u batch a chain of proccess, the batch file wait until first app run and close then open the next and so on but if u make a shortcut of the app and put that shortcut in the batch file all apps run at once. (if u downloaded the batch files u can see in the path, for example: c:\Prog...\Yz...\YzShadow.exe.lnk). The order doesn't matter.

The OFF.bat is a simple batch file that make a killtask job for those apps u run to get the visual enviroment (those apps in ON.bat). BTW u need to edit the file to write the apps u r running on. The order doesn't matter neither.

Then u can put OFF.bat in ur dock and ON.bat in ur Quick Launch for faster access. In the time I need to run a game I press OFF (all visual apps shutdown, aprox 2 sec) and play my game . When I quit the game I press ON.bat in my Quick Launch and voila! in 2~4 secs all my visual enviroment ready to use again. If u use any Stardock app u can't kill TrayServer.exe, u know what I mean.

I got some troubles with TYPE32.exe and POINT32.exe playing Counter-Strike, and I asked myselve: what can I do? well, that is the truly history about those little batch files . Will be cool if someone make a script to do the same job, I don't know to program scripts but I think it could be more stable and faster than a batch file, maybe not, U R THE HAckZORS

#17297

Originally posted by Ken+Mar 14 2003, 06:29 PM-->

QUOTE(Ken @ Mar 14 2003, 06:29 PM)

#17311

Originally posted by |2uso@Mar 14 2003, 07:17 PM

Will you expain these .bat files a little more? It sounds like something i've been wanting - to be able to turn my system tray items on and off all at once when installing apps or playing games.

Yup, those little batchs do the work all we need (for the moment) in a rudimentary way: with ON.bat you can turn on all ur visual effects (Yz/OD/Moby, YzShadow/WindowFx, YzToolbar, OB, DesktopX and so on) all you need is to write the correct path for those apps. When u batch a chain of proccess, the batch file wait until first app run and close then open the next and so on but if u make a shortcut of the app and put that shortcut in the batch file all apps run at once. (if u downloaded the batch files u can see in the path, for example: c:\Prog...\Yz...\YzShadow.exe.lnk). The order doesn't matter.

The OFF.bat is a simple batch file that make a killtask job for those apps u run to get the visual enviroment (those apps in ON.bat). BTW u need to edit the file to write the apps u r running on. The order doesn't matter neither.

Then u can put OFF.bat in ur dock and ON.bat in ur Quick Launch for faster access. In the time I need to run a game I press OFF (all visual apps shutdown, aprox 2 sec) and play my game . When I quit the game I press ON.bat in my Quick Launch and voila! in 2~4 secs all my visual enviroment ready to use again. If u use any Stardock app u can't kill TrayServer.exe, u know what I mean.

I got some troubles with TYPE32.exe and POINT32.exe playing Counter-Strike, and I asked myselve: what can I do? well, that is the truly history about those little batch files . Will be cool if someone make a script to do the same job, I don't know to program scripts but I think it could be more stable and faster than a batch file, maybe not, U R THE HAckZORS

So how do I edit the file? I clicked off and everything disappeared - I put the "on" in the quick launch but nothing worked in the taskbar - I had to log off to get back. I got on to work but not off.

taskkill /IM yztoolbar.exe.lnk /IM MBM5.exe.lnk/IM trillian.exe /IM CoolMon.exe/IM YzShadow.exe /IM yztoolbar.exe /IM smc.exe/IM NMain.exe/IM ePrompter.exe /IM MBM5.exe /

cls

"C:\Program Files\YzToolbar\yztoolbar.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\Motherboard Monitor 5\MBM5.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\Trillian\trillian.exe"

"C:\Program Files\CoolMon\CoolMon.exe"

"C:\Program Files\Sygate\SPF\smc.exe" -start

"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\NMain.exe" /dat:C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\navui.nsi /nosysworks

"C:\Program Files\ePrompter\ePrompter.exe"

"C:\Program Files\Motherboard Monitor 5\MBM5.exe"

#17328

Didn't understood you, but, I am seeing a mistake in your ON.bat, let me explain u all again:

My ON.bat

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Hardware\Keyboard\type32.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\DU Meter\dumeter.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\YzToolbar\yztoolbar.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\CpuIdlePro\cpuidle.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\Object Desktop\ObjectBar\objectbar.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\ObjectDock\objectdock.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\YzShadow\YzShadow.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\Object Desktop\WindowFX\wfxload.exe.lnk"

"C:\Program Files\Motherboard Monitor 5\MBM5.exe.lnk"

Of course, as you can see I created one shortcut per program in each folder (ie. yztoolbar.exe.lnk in YzToolbar folder)

BTW, this can shutdown ur visual (mac emulated) interface not ur other programs, if u kill Nmain.exe obiously you need to log off (becose it uses a service).

"Lite" apps can be shutdown as well (ie. MBM5.exe)

It is mandatory to make these shortcuts in the same program's folder for each program that u use. Without these shortcut the batch file stop until each program run/quit, with shortcuts in your batch file the interpreter run all programs at once.

"C:\Program Files\Trillian\trillian.exe"

"C:\Program Files\CoolMon\CoolMon.exe"

"C:\Program Files\Sygate\SPF\smc.exe" -start

"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\NMain.exe" /dat:C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\navui.nsi /nosysworks

"C:\Program Files\ePrompter\ePrompter.exe"

"C:\Program Files\Motherboard Monitor 5\MBM5.exe"

They are programs, u didn't made the shortcuts as I said

You need to make the shortcuts and point the command to that shortcut

"C:\Program Files\Trillian\trillian.exe.lnk"

When you make a shortcut in windows it looks like the same icon as the original app plus a little arrow, right? well, the real name for that shortcut is the same name as the original app plus .lnk

My OFF.bat

taskkill /IM iblink.exe /IM objectbar.exe /IM objectdock.exe /IM type32.exe /IM YzShadow.exe /IM yztoolbar.exe /IM dumeter.exe /IM cpuidle.exe /IM wfxload.exe /IM MBM5.exe /IM yztoolbar.exe /IM wfxload.exe /IM explorer.exe /F

explorer.exe.lnk

cls

taskkill /?

/IM image name Specifies the image name of the process that has to be terminated. Wildcard '*' can be used to specify all image names.

/F Specifies to forcefully terminate process(es).

Make a shortcut for explorer.exe too. When u kill explorer.exe u r cleaning the memory it use too. Remember to kill it and rerun it again

Oh! one little thing: I am using XP, i dont know if this is useful on other vwindows versions.

#17349

i used to aquafy my p200.. it ran win98 so all i could use was windowblinds and objectbar for some basics. anyway that PC is a footrest now.. i have a "much faster" (or less-slow, as the case always is with PCs..) tbird 750

not enuf ram in it though, running some aqua stuff (y'z toolbar, object dock, litestep menus, msstyle and iceman's dlls) does make photoshopping or lightwave stuff a little sluggish. In fact i run out of virtual memory almost every time i use PS and imageReady simultaneously.

time to save up for a real mac i think. but a good g4 is about NZ$8000

#17356

|2uso - nevermind - I don't understand you. You make a shortcut in the program folder and rename the ext to lnk? so, YzToolBar.exe.lnk

It does not work when I make .exe.lnk - it will only open the first program when I have just the .exe. and when I use "exe.lnk" I get an error message.

#17358