As I have said before (or maybe just thought) Apples hardware is simply too expensive to ever become as popular as windows computer. Price, and how little of it there is, trumps design.
Check out this article, its the reason I posted this:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con..._9932_tc056.htm
I don't know if Apple is going for popular. I think they prefer being the Lamborghini of the computer world.
Originally posted by deadzombie@Jul 9 2004, 02:38 PMI don't know if Apple is going for popular. I think they prefer being the Lamborghini of the computer world.
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That is a good point, though, it seems that corporations like apple would prefer to have as much market and as much $$$ as they can get. Maybe Jobs is different? I doubt it.
Its all about company size vs. profit. Microsoft makes billions, but whats the overall profitability per employee? I wonder how it compares to Apples much smaller structuring...I would take bets that Apple is comparable to Microsoft in earned dollar per head. That would just leave size as an issue. Is Apple big enough? Does size matter? I don't think it does...anyone can purchase an Apple, so IMO they're big enough.
I'd rather have 5 employees making a 1 million annual company profit than 1,000,000 employees making 100 million a year.
there are "affordable" apples as well. the eMac is ridiculously low-priced. the baseline iMac is hardly 'expensive', nor the no-frills iBooks either. I really don't understand this line of thinking where everyone says Apple is so expensive.
The line of thinking goes like this:
At first glance, mid to top of the line model Macs ARE expensive. This sets the average consumer back at first.
Then the low end or late model Macs are discovered at affordable prices. This gives the consumer hope.
Then the consumer realizes that they have to purchase new software. This can double, triple or quadruple the price of a Mac. If they don't buy new software, they are stuck with a pretty toy, good for web surfing, interaction with friends and such, but not able to get any real work done.
The above average consumer, the power user, is used to the price of the hardware, as they have probably spent an equivilant price on upgraded PC components. (For example, my Athlon Shuttle XPC system runs a comparable amount to a base G5. High end video, high end monitor and additional components add up).
However the power user uses top end software. Photoshop, CAD, 3D modeling apps cost top dollar. Very few power user see the need to spend 10k on apps they already have spent years aquiring legal liscenses for...to rebuild an entire library on a new platform over the space of a few weeks or months can be a huge blow to both the bank account and the power user overall day to day production schedule.
There are ways around these scenarios that dont need to be discussed here. :6 But this is how the line of reasoning that Macs are more expensive than Pc's goes. 
the problem is that entry level macs look like pieces of crap.
They remind me of what sunk Zenith! televisions.
people want flash, people want more GHZ, they want twice the ®,
they want prOn packaging!
Offtopic:
And why are people so uptight about mentioning that illegal music/software/media downloads subsidize the pc(mac and x86) market. Even if its 'wrong' (though it mostly isn't) its still a fact.
p2p is making the tech market STRONG!
Originally posted by deadzombie@Jul 9 2004, 12:38 PMI don't know if Apple is going for popular. I think they prefer being the Lamborghini of the computer world.
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Praise the lord! :Dz:
I had the fastest "lamborghini" 
Apple is happily placed in their tiny market niche, they are confortable there, why go somewhere else? 
Originally posted by realitybath@Jul 10 2004, 12:55 AMthe problem is that entry level macs look like pieces of crap.
They remind me of what sunk Zenith! televisions.
people want flash, people want more GHZ, they want twice the ®,
they want prOn packaging!
Offtopic:
And why are people so uptight about mentioning that illegal music/software/media downloads subsidize the pc(mac and x86) market. Even if its 'wrong' (though it mostly isn't) its still a fact.
p2p is making the tech market STRONG!
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hahaha my dad bought a zenith long time ago, and it broke down after 1 month....
but back on topic, I would love to own a mac in the near future, they are the lamborghinis of computers... :canadian:
Whoever is saying Macs are not expensive is crazy. I can make the fastest pc available for probably under 1000-2000 dollars depending on what else is in it. For the fastest mac (dual 2ghz) it costs what like 2-3K? Macs ARE definately expensive. Though they are luxury computers, I dont think that the price of their hardware is reasonable for the work put into them. If you think about it, hardly any more work has to go into them, besides the design. Dont take me wrong though, I definately like apples, just wish they were more decently priced.
Well said! I would have bought a low end mac a long time ago if the low end macs didnt cost above $500.
Originally posted by juno@Jul 10 2004, 07:18 PMWell said! I would have bought a low end mac a long time ago if the low end macs didnt cost above $500.
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Yea.. I could make a lowend pc for like 300-400 and it would be brand new, not used at all. A used 500Mhz iBook costs 500-600 dollars!!! For 500-600 look what you can get on ebay. Almost new Laptops!! at least 1 ghz. Crazy I tell you!
The same, I cannot understand this line too. Why do you guys think the Mac machine is too expensive. Here, the mac machine is pretty cheap compared with other PC machine. For example, one ibook G4 costs just 1000 dollar, wheras a Vaio with the same SPEC costs 2 times more. Actually, the ibook G4 is the cheapest laptop here. I am using VAIO laptop just beacuse the LCD of ibook is too bad, and it is too heavy itseif. Maybe it is more expensive in other place.
wind, read over my post that explains the reasoning for you and you will understand...
Originally posted by realitybath@Jul 10 2004, 01:55 AMthe problem is that entry level macs look like pieces of crap.
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Hey, less of the hating on my Keiko. eMacs are chunky, but they're beuties, especially compared to most available PCs.
Unless you want me to spray-paint it black, saw off one side so I can see inside and then chuck some big shiny lights inside. 
:6 :moon:
Personally, I think that Apples aren't expensive.
Eg. the eMac is starting at AU$1299. A similar powered IBM Compatible is around AU$1500.
Of course, when you leave the consumer market, the PowerBooks are from AU$2599. A similar IBM Compatible laptop, you won't find untill you get to the 15" market and the IBM Compatible laptops are cheaper but not as nice looking.
If you made your own powerful PC, it would cost around AU$3000 at least for a nice machine that does everthing. A G5 starts around AU$5000 with a LCD monitor added but you are getting a quality machine.
Apple has to subsidize software development. It's that simple. You're not paying for just hardware, you're paying for R&D.
I dont care whether you think it's still worth the price, but obviously Apple has A LOT more overhead then someone like a Dell. The Dells of this world have done nothing for the industry. They've made cheap, bearly workable PCs. That's it. Apple has done plenty, in software and hardware, and that costs money.
You're also forgetting, The Dells (HP, Emachines, etc) make a 1% profit. It's a Walmart business practice. When a company is making that little profit, they have to cut corners. Apple has a large profit margin, so they aren't going to be tempted to do something like WinModems or underpowered PSUs. Sorry to sound pissed, but atrocities have been commited in the name of lower prices (sweat shops, etc), so I prefer to pay a little more sometimes.
Originally posted by contrasutra@Jul 10 2004, 08:42 PMSorry to sound pissed, but atrocities have been commited in the name of lower prices (sweat shops, etc), so I prefer to pay a little more sometimes.
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This is absolutely true. You have also shown the reason why Apple products cost more. There is one place in the world that seems very strange to me. Thailand.
Everything there is cheap, cheaper than you can imagine. You can get a complete meal at a high-class restaraunt for a few dollars, a new t-shirt for 10 cents (USD) and gas is extremely cheap. I understand why some of the other things cost little (corporate outsourcing) but why is gas cheap there when it is expensive in the rest of the world? There are no oil fields there. Is this some kind of strange nation that isnt effected by the rest of the world's economy? I think there is a lot of bad things that people in high places are doing that cause the workers there to work for nothing, having the clothes cost nothing to make and then making near 100% profit after sending the products, now with 'Brand Names', overseas. It makes me sick to think of that but I think it may be the reason.
When people mention eMac or iMac as the low cost mac alternative to say build your own pc low cost they neglect to mention or maybe think of how you sacrifice upgradibility going with say... an eMac.
Now I'm not saying they are crap or anything I think they are really nice computers that's just how it is. Also, If you don't care about swapping any component then it is fine.
However if you go with an el cheapo PC from a brand name you might lose say.. the AGP slot with severely limits your graphics card upgrading possibilities. An example of that would be my parents computer which they bought for 500 or so bucks.
Of course though if you really want to get a Mac you can get a refurbished or used G4 or something. But one has to realize that not everyone wants to or is able to plunk down the cash required to get themselves a G5 computer which ARE expensive nor would they want to plunk down all the cash they would need to pay to get an Alienware, or similar PC. Some people have other priorities in their lives when it comes to spending that kind of money.
P.S. This isn't directed at anyone personally. It's just my opinion.
Originally posted by contrasutraThe Dells of this world have done nothing for the industry. They've made cheap, bearly workable PCs. That's it. Apple has done plenty, in software and hardware, and that costs money.
Amen to that!
Well, when I bought my iMac 17" 800Mhz last year at this time. I spent around 16.000danish kroner.(divide by 6 or 7 for US$) But it ended up being at almost 30.000dkr because I took it on credit.
So it's was quite expensive and there are little possibilities for expansion. But the thing is I have to send it to Holland to get the upgrades. And wait several weeks mind you.
So I'm looking for a G5 which will keep me happy.
I agree that Macs are expensive, but there is much more to a Mac than you know. You quickly get settled in using OS X for instance. It's very fool-proof so anyone can try things out without risking that the OS wont start after a reboot.
IMHO.
Originally posted by pixelmatrix@Jul 10 2004, 08:17 PMWhoever is saying Macs are not expensive is crazy. I can make the fastest pc available for probably under 1000-2000 dollars depending on what else is in it. For the fastest mac (dual 2ghz) it costs what like 2-3K? [...]
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What a load of utter tripe.
The fastest PC available costs far in excess of $2000 USD, you just don't know where to look for it. A $2000 USD x86 machine isn't the sort of machine the PowerMac G5 is pitched against - it's up against $2-3000 USD content creation workstations, or high end development workstations.
For example, the CPUs, motherboard and RAM alone for my next machine will cost in excess of $2000 USD.
The entire price/performance argument that people make is completely moot unless people take into account the intended use of the system.
Macs can get expensive, especially if you are crazy with your plastic, but there are payment plans and apple dosnt skimp on em either, i ordered a Dualie 2.5 just last month and with some good software to and its only 130 a month.
Heres a project, pick out the fastest computer they have (G5,G5 xserve) and start adding on every bell and whistle you can find. your total; usually ends up in the 20-30k range. now thats an expensive machine---fast--- but expensive. at a price like that its not only the king of the hill, its the owner of the land that the hill is on.
so yes i do think that they can be a little expensive but look at what you get@!!!
last time i bought a pc it came full of out-dated offers, trialversions of programs that have long been updated 8 versions ahead. on a mac you get the most recent of everything!! and the apple know-how line is nearly impossable to beat.
Topic Moved.
This is probably best suited to Apple Hardware...
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