[help]where Do I Stand Legally?

Ok, I just got an e-mail from some guy saying he will close my site down unless I change the name of the site before the 28th June. I've already replied and basically said shut up to him, but, legally where do I stand with regards the naming of my site if he does contact Geocities.

Here are the details:

MY SITE

Name: Avatar Central v2.0

Original Appearance: 1998-1999

Orginal Location: http://avatarc.xoom.net (Not available anymore).

New Design made: 2002

Moved to Geocities after Xoom got taken over by NBC, have been producing a few avatars a year since then although was in the middle of moving off Geocities earlier this year stopped as was waiting for money to get a decent host for a full site (Including my skin work)(This will probably result in a name change anyway, but...). Design completed original by me, created in Fireworks and Dreamweaver.

Current Address: http://www.geocities.com/acaeris

HIS SITE

Name: Avatar Central

Original Appearance: According to his site, earliest is September 2003

Location: http://www.avatarcentral.virtue.nu

Design: Simple but obviously his own work, nothing like mine.

He states himself that he only came up with the idea in 2003, well after my sites launch. He has no avatars on the site yet.

-----------------

I'd assume in this case there is nothing really he can do, I've had the name longer but it's not as though the name is that original that I would be the first. I don't mind his site having the name, but I don't see why I should change mine when it's part of my site identity (His site barely looks like it has an identity (No offense to him or anything)).

Well, does anyone here know what I/He can/can't/should do here?

EDIT: The first thing that came to my mind was forward the message on to Geocities, with the info I've posted here and ask their opinion but I don't think they'd care about such a pety dispute.

#178864

I have no legal experience, but in the case of Nissan Computer and Nissan Motors, it was orignially ruled the Nissan Computers did not have to give up the nissan.com domain. Now it seems that it cannot be used for commercial (I don't know how that came about). But since both are non-profit and you where around before the other site, I don't think Geocities has anything against you to make you close the site.

#178866

His site is ****. He should focus on making a decent website before trying to shut others down. *sigh*

#178872

His Original E-mail:

Please stop using the name Avatar Central For your website.

Though I was unable to determine the date of origan for your website,

This

is the first time oyu've come up on my securety audit.

I will give yuou 10 days (till the 28th of Jun) To change the name of

your

website. If at the end of the time period, you have failed to comply,

then I

will beforced to go to Geocities and have them do something baout it.

Thanks,

~elven_warrior~

Webmaster of Avatar

Central

My Reply:

Thank you for contacting me Ben but I do not believe

you have any power or reason to have my site closed

over the name of the site. The current design

available on Geocities is my 2nd design and the site

has been going since 1997. I started it originally on

the Xoom free internet service before NBC took over, I

then moved it to Geocities (early 1999) the revamped

design came about fairly recently but at least 2 years

ago and has no reflection on your site at all.

I personally have no qualms with you having the site

name Avatar Central, but I do have a problem with you

insisting people who have had a site up and running

for several years and have spent quite some time and

money into it's organisation closing it down or

changing it's name because you happened to pick one

similar.

If you wish to talk to Geocities feel free, although I

feel that they would agree with me in you have no

right to for me to change the name.

I will not in the mean time change the name of my

site. I plan within the next year to have the site

moved to a new hosting service and maybe then I will

change the name of the site, but not before hand.

Alan Osborne (Acaeris)

Administrator and Web-desginer for Avatar Central v2.0

P.S. I hope your project does well.

His Reply:

Hmn... been up since 1997 eh? what, you only add 10 avatars a year or

something?

Seriously, get more to be able to call yourself avatar CENTRAL

Mywebsite has

over 1000 avatars, we had just about 200 when I launched it.

For a site that's been up that long, how is it this is the first tiem

you've

come up on my check? I do it twice a month, and this is the first.

Also, for

such an old, and well established site as you run, it's rather minimal.

Btw, do you know ANYTHING about national, and international

tradde-mark, and

copyright laws?

I had tradmarked the title AvatarCentral for two reasons. Usage, I've

been

using it longer then most, and I have 20000hits. with just about 11000

unique hits. How many hits/visitors has your website had in the 7 years

it's

been up?

Read up on the current trademark laws before you go spouting.

Also, I am sorry for doing this, as I said, I didn't know how long

you've

been up, and was going soley on the fact that this is the FIRST time

your

website has EVER come up in one of my checks.

A few suggestions. Get #1 a small biographical page up.

#2 an FAQ

#3 MORE AVATARS

Also, from what your site says, it seems like you didn't even make most

of

your avatars.

I have made ALL but the subbmited avatars.

Also, my next update, when it's finished, will contain just about 200

avatars.

Thanks,

~elven_warrior~

Webmaster of Avatar

Central

:rant:

#178875

My Reply to that pile of **** he just wrote:

Quote from first reply:

"I plan within the next year to have the site moved to a new hosting service."

That means that I was moving it off the server anyway.

As for hits, that is difficult as it has been on 2 servers, on the first I'd say no more that 15,000 in the 3 years it had been there. Geocities however says we've had near on 160,000 hits since the new design.

Some but not all avatars in our collection are modified screenshots/cgi work from various games these are mainly from our initial collection but as the idea of the site was a collection point for avatars it wasn't, at the time important for them to be completely original.

Between the 4 members working on the site we have created a good 200 avatars and emoticons in the past 3 months, all original for the new site.

You jusgement of our collection is a wildly inaccurate as your judgement of our capabilities. Not including the emoticons, skins and themes we have created recently the collection originally hosted on geocities was nearer 15,000 avatars (limited by the hosting space not our actual collection which was nearer 40,000).

The site is designed to be simple so that we could host as many avatars as possible. Also, if you had any professional knowledge webdesign you would know that simple designs work (See for example, Google, Amazon, eBay, etc.)(Yes, that is right, I work as a professional webdesigner, this is something I (and the other members) do for fun as a hobby).

As for copyright, an artist has copyright of his work as soon as it has been created, you do not have to register any legal documentation to have copyright on your own work.

Stating you have a Trademark however would suggest that you are using the site to create trade, which would suggest you are being paid for your site. If you really do have a Trademark over the name Avatar Central I would appreciate some official evidence to back this up. Only then wuld I conider my stand point further on this matter.

Alan Osborne (Acaeris)

Administrator and Web-designer of Avatar Central v2.0.

Note: All stats in here are actual truth (The 160,000 hits is Geocities total hits count though so it's probably counting the same user about 100 times a visit). My English got bad cause I am really :piss:ed by this now.

#178877

Personally, I don't think he has any grounds to do anything. And if he's going to contact GeoCities with all that misspellings, I doubt they'll take him seriously at all.

#178878

You're non commercial, you've been around a while, and you're not trying to deceive anyone. I would ignore the guy.

I also didn't see any trademark of "Avatar Central" at the USPTO (http://www.uspto.gov/).

If he really trademarked it, ask him for the filing number, and date.

#178880

Well, more e-mail later, I have sent him a link to an entry in the Wayback Machine when my site moved over to Geocities. Dated: October, 2002. For some reason the only one earlier was April 2001, which was just before I moved over from Xoom, Oh well. It's still older than his site.

He's also stated he asn't paid the tradmarking fee but has assumed trademark on the name (I just laughed cause I knew it meant that at least I was more likely to have Trademark than he was and I doubt I'm the oldest Avatar Central out there).

#178881

I just did a search in the Trademark office of the United States Government and no results were found for "Avatar Central" or "AvatarCentral". He's so bull****ting about that. Secondly, you were there first, he needs to realize that all his avatars are not made by him, just cropped and resized, just as your's are. He doesn't own any rights to the characters or anything. I applaud you for giving authorship where the company provided, where he has said they are all his own. He really needs to "get off his high-horse" and realize he is wrong. I think that he needs a reality check. If he really has a problem with both sites being called the same, he should change his name so he doesn't seem to be affiliated with you, especially since you have been around much longer, and have shown that your site is more popular than his. Again, luck to you (you won't need it), and I hope it all works out well in the end.

// Lou

#178883

I must applaud you for very professionally put replies to his obviously unprofessional e-mails. Your site also looks great as well.

I don't think you have grounds to change your name, especially considering the circumstances. Perhaps he should spend less of his time on "security checks" and more time updating his website. Besides, the childish way he was throwing around statistics really means nothing. This is a discussion about trademarks and copyright infringement, not on pure statistics. Because of the fact that he did try to harp on his statistics should point out right away that this is clearly more than just a trademark issue, rather perhaps a competition issue as well on his part.

Good luck

#178897

I wouldn't worry about it at all, the man couldn't even take the time to spell three words in a row right. If he's got a dispute with you, it's not like he can do much - even if does lead to changing your websites name - he can't shut you down. What a loser.

-Digman

#178917

off topic relating to the legal side of things but i just visited both sites and I have to say that Acaeris site is WAY BETTER than the other guys !!

#178924

Subject: I'm not a very religious person, but i believe this applies...

To: bw13lotrzippy@hotmail.com

"Do not accuse anyone without legitimate cause, if he

has not treated you wrongly"

-Proverbs 3:30

Having a good heart is more important than your pride.

#178934

Thank you for your answers and support, we seem to have come to an agreement, I'm not changing my sites name and he can continue using his it for his site (I'm not bothered, as I said in my first post I'm probably going to change the name when I get a good host for the updated version).

#178967

@Acaeris.

Fella, just ignore that little guy and keep up with your wonderful work. He's obviously got issues. I mean, its not like your doing things like hotlinking him, etc.

Maybe hes afraid that you will take hits away from him by way of search engines or something. lol, anywayss.. lets give him some time then hopefully he will find a new hobby,..maybe knitting

#178977

one word:

IGNORE

if he tries something we`ll kick his ass

#178994

if he tries something we`ll kick his ass

Yeh, nowadays sites *die* all the time.

He could be unlucky, you never know.

#179392