New Forum Structure

As everyone may have noticed from my posts of late, I'm planning to do lots of work around Aqua-Soft over the next few months.

The first things I'm planning are to re-structure and re-organise the forums, and re-write the rules, and posthumously enforce these to old content.

I'm also planning to write some "helpers" for us staff members, so that we get notifications of potential problems and so forth as soon as possible (spammers, fake users, and so forth).

The first step in this mass clean up is going to be a re-structuring of the forums, and as such, I've attempted to come up with an overall cleaner and more coherent structure for the forums.

Why am I posting here? Before we implement this, I'd like to get some public opinion on the structure I'm proposing - I can't think of everything, and any suggestions/comments are much appreciated.

All off-topic comments will be deleted.

Don't even think about posting comments not related to the structure of the forums.

You know who you are.

Main

--General Discussion (Discuss anything that is not related to any of the other forums)

--Aqua Discussion (Discuss aqua-related topics)

--iLife (Discuss multimedia creation)

Applications

--General (General application discussion)

--Developers Discussion (Discussion on application design/development)

--Developers' Forums (Discussion on community-made applicatiosn)

----Requests

----Releases

----Alilm

----Ave

----Aqua Apps

----Moby

----Siwu

----Y'z

--Samurize (Discuss Samurize related topics)

--Stardock (Discuss Stardock and their products)

----DesktopX

----Icon Packager

----Object Bar

----Object Dock

----Window Blinds

--Media Players (Discuss all media players)

----iTunes

Customizing

--Customizing Windows GUI (Themes, ResHacking, Boot/Login screens, etc.)

----Requests

----Theme Releases

----System Files

------Releases

--Customizing Other (Customizing *nix, MacOS, et al.)

----Requests

----Releases

--Skins (Skins for any applications)

----Requests

----Releases

--Icons & Cursors (Post your icons/cursors and ask questions...)

----Requests

----Releases

--Wallpapers (Post your wallpapers and ask questions...)

----Requests

----Releases

Software

--General (Cross platform software discussion)

--Windows (Windows software discussion)

--Mac OS (Mac OS software discussion)

--*nix/Other (*nix/Other sofware discussion)

Hardware

--General (General hardware discussion)

--Apple (Discussion relating to all Apple hardware)

--x86 (Discussion relating to all "x86"/IBM-Compatible hardware)

Web

--General (General web-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

Forum

--Comments & Suggestions (Share your opinions and ask questions about Aqua-Soft...)

--Rips & Unauthorized Works (Report and discuss "ripped" works here)

--Trash Can (Where pointless topics go to die)

--News Archive (News from before 02-05-2004)

Staff Forums

--Private (Private forum for staff members)

----Tutorials (Tutorials for new staff members)

--Deleted (Posts which are offensive/break "key" rules)

Again:

All off-topic comments will be deleted.

Don't even think about posting comments not related to the structure of the forums.

You know who you are.

#161858

It's about time someone tidied up the place. (Y)

-godpunk

#161861

Do we really need both of these:

--Developers Discussion (Discussion on application design/development)

--Developers' Forums (Discussion on community-made applicatiosn)

Seems like they could merge.

#161863

Developers Discussion is for questions about coding.

Developers' Forums is for each coder that has a suite of Apps.

I think it looks good.

#161864

Originally posted by wizard@May 14 2004, 08:02 PM

Developers Discussion is for questions about coding.

Developers' Forums is for each coder that has a suite of Apps.

I think it looks good.

Also, "developers' forums" is for requests/releases of apps for other coders (in the appropriate forums)...

#161869

The requests forums will follow a special rule that is...

If your request has been fulfilled, the topic is closed and a -filled- comment is added to your thread name. This way, there is no extra blabber and people can look for "world of aqua AND filled" and get good search results.

#161870

Originally posted by Seph@May 14 2004, 08:10 PM

The requests forums will follow a special rule that is...

If your request has been fulfilled, the topic is closed and a -filled- comment is added to your thread name. This way, there is no extra blabber and people can look for "world of aqua AND filled" and get good search results.

Perhaps a staff-only [filled] tag?

#161871

I ask you to enforce certain measures that I have discussed with Seph which are being enforced with great effect on another forum which I am a member of. I'm sure he will detail them to you. But here are some in brief:

Enable members to help keep forums clean by using forum codes. By this I mean come up with some kind of codes (words) that moderators will search for on a regular basis and take appropriate action. I illustrate with a few examples.

• *ASCheck* - Members can post a reply in threads with *ASCheck* to ask a moderator to check up on a dead link or some other problem related to the thread
  
• *ASFilled* - Typically used in Request threads. Members post a reply with just *ASFilled* to indicate that a request has been filled and may be closed. The member who started the thread can PM the moderator who closed the thread in case it needs to be re-opened. And that should be stated in the reply by the moderator who closes the thread
  
• *ASDelete* - Can be used by members to indicate redundant threads or threads containing spam or warez or anything that significantly breaches the rules of the Aqua-Soft forum
  

Moderators can then search for these codes and take the appropriate action. This is just a tentative list. More can be implemented nor am I saying that all of these must be implemented. I'm simply giving ideas.

Some of the other things that must be put in place are a 'Thank You' forum hack that creates an admin-level bot which simply accumulates 'Thank Yous' in a thread. This will stop the 'Thank You' replies. If a member needs to be thanked for his contribution all that needs to be done is press the 'Thank You' button which should be implemented next to the 'Add Reply' button.

Some other simple forum rules that could be implemented are enforcing a rule that a post does not increment ones post count unless it consists of a significant number of characters.

One thing that remains questionable is tags but I am for replacing the small icons next to the thread title with a button that shows the tag. Also tags need to be made mandatory when creating a new topic. Also in another thread Anarchi5t came up with a neat set of tags and I shall quote them here for they are all I deem necessary on these boards.

Originally posted by Anarchi5t

We really only need

[Release]

[Announce]

[Preview]

[Tutorial]

[Help]

[Chat]

There are other suggestions I have for the forum if any of the moderators would care to listen but these are the few I recommend for now.

Sometimes I wonder why I was fired. <_<

#161878

perhaps with all of the threads that have 'release' and 'request', you also include one for 'bugs'?

#161910

As far as forum structure is concerned one of my major ideas was to seperate the Requests and Releases into seperate sub-forums. But I see that Stevie is already one step ahead of me as far as that goes.

Regarding the individual forums themselves I have a few comments.

• The General forum under Applications needs to go. I don't see the need for it at all. All topics that I can think of that would fit in said forum would easily go under Aqua Discussion.
  
• I agree with contrasutra on the fact that the Developers Discussion forum is redundant and that it could very well be merged into one forum called Developer's Hangout or whatever.
  
• The list for the developers' forums looks fine with Alilm, Ave and Siwu (and maybe Moby....read further). As for Y'z and Aqua Apps I'm not sure. I have always thought that ever since the AquaApps were shutdown, the forum should not be a forum at all but just a pinned thread with notes on why they are not being developed anymore with the C&D letter from Apple Inc. attached as proof. We do not want to get into legal trouble with Apple.
  As far as the Y'z Apps are concerned I firmly believe that we will never see another app from Mr. Yamaguchi ever again. So why keep the forum under Apps? If you want to keep the forum to include skins for the Y'z Apps then it should go under the Customizing Windows GUI forum because it would only include skins (i.e. dock backgrounds or toolbar themes). I think Miscellanous discussions about Y'z Shadow and settings for said program could fit under Aqua Discussion or the Y'z forum whichever you deem appropriate.
  As for the MobyDock forum I am kinda divided over. We have not seen any development of MobyDock ever since v0.87b. No offence Moby, I still use your dock. But I think it might go better under skins (just like the Y'z app for dock backgrounds. If there ever is another release (which btw I don't see a need for because v0.87b is unbelievably stable and feature-rich), we can re-open the forum. However I am undecided on this one because we still do see a lot of troubleshooting issues with MobyDock because unlike the other docks it is hardware-accelerated and this brings about a lot more compatibility issues with aforementioned program. That's why I leave this decision upto you.
  
• Looking good until we reach the Stardock forum. This forum has had its share of activity and non-activity. For example the IconPackager forum is practically empty while the WindowBlinds forum is buzzing with activity. But I think the forum structure is appropriate with 5 sub-forums for the most commonly used Stardock apps. I am however concerned about sub-forum breakdowns for certain forums. I think the ObjectBar forum will need a 'Releases' sub-forum without a 'Requests' sub-forum because Requests are usually fulfilled by crni almost without asking. But there are plenty of OB theme releases which warrants the need of a 'Releases' sub-forum. Maybe crni could be made a moderator of that sub-forum but that remains to be seen. The WindowBlinds sub-forum also could use some breaking down because we get Requests all the time for ports of themes from Mac OS X or even Visual Styles. A Releases forum would also be appropriate seeing the popularity that WB4 is gathering. The other forums in the Stardock category are fine
  
• Down through to Customizing. Where in the world is the Visual Styles category? A Theme Releases sub-forum does not justify the huge fan following we have for visual styles here. I suggest that a category called Visual Styles be created with 2 sub-forums called Requests and Releases. The Requests theme will house requests for ports of themes from OS X or WindowBlinds and the reason for Releases is obvious. I also think that 'System Files' needs to be a main forum and not a sub-forum since we have tons of system files modifications happening here. The Releases sub-forum under System Files is a good idea. The only other recommendation I have for the Customizing category is what I said above regarding the Y'z and Moby forums. Dividing each category into a Requests and Releases sub-forum here is an excellent idea.
  
• Into the Software category. I almost laughed when I saw the description for the General forum. Nice thinking Stevie. I know what you had in mind. You probably intended the 'How do I open a .dmg file under Windows?' questions here. Unfortunately that is the only question I see that would fit under this topic apart from the eternal 'Can I run Mac OS X on my PC?' question. However the answer to the latter is now YES thanks to PearPC and it would go under Windows Software (or *nix Software). So unless you have some really nifty ideas for this forum I can pretty much see it dead.
  
• Last recommendation is for the Web forum. What do you expect to see under the General forum? Please let me know because I cannot think of anything specific at the moment and personally think the forum needs to be axed. Everything after that seems perfect.
  

One last request is that News Posters be given access to the Staff forums. After all we are Staff.

That's all I can think of for now. Please contact me if you need any clarification on the above stated points or for any other recommendations.

Thanks,

Sid

#161921

Originally posted by Sid+May 14 2004, 09:25 PM-->

QUOTE(Sid @ May 14 2004, 09:25 PM)

The General forum under Applications needs to go. I don't see the need for it at all. All topics that I can think of that would fit in said forum would easily go under Aqua Discussion.

I figured this would be a good place for people to discuss applications - "Aqua discussion" is supposed to be about GUI related topics... That said, I think I'd tend to agree with you here...

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

I agree with contrasutra on the fact that the Developers Discussion forum is redundant and that it could very well be merged into one forum called Developer's Hangout or whatever.

The only reason I thought it was better seperated is because I felt that non-developers wouldn't want to have to filter through threads about using managed code in .Net and opening JDBC connections and so forth, and devs would want to get straight to this... I may be wrong, but I thought this was a rather logical seperation...

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

I have always thought that ever since the AquaApps were shutdown, the forum should not be a forum at all but just a pinned thread with notes on why they are not being developed anymore with the C&D letter from Apple Inc. attached as proof. We do not want to get into legal trouble with Apple.

I would tend to agree - I just kept the forum for historical reasons.

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

As far as the Y'z Apps are concerned I firmly believe that we will never see another app from Mr. Yamaguchi ever again. So why keep the forum under Apps? If you want to keep the forum to include skins for the Y'z Apps then it should go under the Customizing Windows GUI forum because it would only include skins (i.e. dock backgrounds or toolbar themes). I think Miscellanous discussions about Y'z Shadow and settings for said program could fit under Aqua Discussion or the Y'z forum whichever you deem appropriate.

What about docklet releases?

I'd tend to agree about the skins, though - they should be in the application skins forum.

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

As for the MobyDock forum I am kinda divided over. We have not seen any development of MobyDock ever since v0.87b. No offence Moby, I still use your dock. But I think it might go better under skins (just like the Y'z app for dock backgrounds. If there ever is another release (which btw I don't see a need for because v0.87b is unbelievably stable and feature-rich), we can re-open the forum. However I am undecided on this one because we still do see a lot of troubleshooting issues with MobyDock because unlike the other docks it is hardware-accelerated and this brings about a lot more compatibility issues with aforementioned program. That's why I leave this decision upto you.

I'd tend to say leave the forum - if there's a new release, it's there, and it's there for troubleshooting and so forth.

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

Looking good until we reach the Stardock forum. This forum has had its share of activity and non-activity. For example the IconPackager forum is practically empty while the WindowBlinds forum is buzzing with activity. But I think the forum structure is appropriate with 5 sub-forums for the most commonly used Stardock apps. I am however concerned about sub-forum breakdowns for certain forums. I think the ObjectBar forum will need a 'Releases' sub-forum without a 'Requests' sub-forum because Requests are usually fulfilled by crni almost without asking. But there are plenty of OB theme releases which warrants the need of a 'Releases' sub-forum. Maybe crni could be made a moderator of that sub-forum but that remains to be seen. The WindowBlinds sub-forum also could use some breaking down because we get Requests all the time for ports of themes from Mac OS X or even Visual Styles. A Releases forum would also be appropriate seeing the popularity that WB4 is gathering. The other forums in the Stardock category are fine

I completely agree.

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

Down through to Customizing. Where in the world is the Visual Styles category? A Theme Releases sub-forum does not justify the huge fan following we have for visual styles here. I suggest that a category called Visual Styles be created with 2 sub-forums called Requests and Releases. The Requests theme will house requests for ports of themes from OS X or WindowBlinds and the reason for Releases is obvious. I also think that 'System Files' needs to be a main forum and not a sub-forum since we have tons of system files modifications happening here. The Releases sub-forum under System Files is a good idea. The only other recommendation I have for the Customizing category is what I said above regarding the Y'z and Moby forums. Dividing each category into a Requests and Releases sub-forum here is an excellent idea.

Again, I see no problem with this (save what I've said about Y'z/Moby above).

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

Into the Software category. I almost laughed when I saw the description for the General forum. Nice thinking Stevie. I know what you had in mind. You probably intended the 'How do I open a .dmg file under Windows?' questions here. Unfortunately that is the only question I see that would fit under this topic apart from the eternal 'Can I run Mac OS X on my PC?' question. However the answer to the latter is now YES thanks to PearPC and it would go under Windows Software (or *nix Software). So unless you have some really nifty ideas for this forum I can pretty much see it dead.

"General" may not be the right title... Perhaps "cross platform" would be more apt - I envisaged this being for things like discussion of Firefox/Thunderbird/whatever, where it applies to 2 or more platforms...

Originally posted by Sid@May 14 2004, 09:25 PM

Last recommendation is for the Web forum. What do you expect to see under the General forum? Please let me know because I cannot think of anything specific at the moment and personally think the forum needs to be axed. Everything after that seems perfect.

I was hoping that we could shift all of the "I found this great site" type thread into there...

#161926

With the wallpapers and icons forums having releases and requests sub-forums, whats actually left to go in the parent? I can't come up with a better idea, but it seems a bit silly as it is.

#161928

Holy mother of god and the little angels! I am not posting that much! I refuse

Yz apps unlike aqua apps do need a forum in which help threads can go, we are not allowed to distribute it but we can still try to give eachother support on it. We should make sure that someone is constantly checking that noone gives an alternate mirror to it though.

I think having CRNI given modding pivilges in the ob forum would be fantastic.

To avoid people using the web > general subforum we could call it, Site Sharing or something of the likes... otherwise they might think chit chat related to sites (badgerbadgerbadger anyone?) is allowed.

I also think iTunes needs a release request subforum... where will localhost go?

Private>Tutorials would need to allow access to newsposters. It is a staff position that really needs to have a [how-to] in which also NP can post their queries.

Lets rename aqua discussion to customizing discussion or GUI discussion as a lot of themes dont even have aqua objects to them and might make people unsure if they can post about it there...

#161940

Originally posted by StevieBM+-->

QUOTE(StevieBM)

The only reason I thought it was better seperated is because I felt that non-developers wouldn't want to have to filter through threads about using managed code in .Net and opening JDBC connections and so forth, and devs would want to get straight to this... I may be wrong, but I thought this was a rather logical seperation...

I leave it to you. I'm not a developer. Maybe you should consult with some of the devs on the forum and ask them which way would suit them better.

Originally posted by StevieBM@

What about docklet releases?

I'd tend to agree about the skins, though - they should be in the application skins forum.

I completely forgot about docklets. Well we'll need to come up with something. Give me some time and I'll think over it.

#161943

what I think really is important, is that the sub-categorys get names like

"Icon: Releases Only" instead of "Releases Only". The problem with names like "Releases Only" is that in your proposed Forum structure there are alot of these subcategorys with the exact same name. If you've ever clicked on "View New Posts" you'll have noticed that in the "Forum" collumn only the name of the actual subcategory is displayed. Now Imagine there were 3 releases: one in wallpaper, one in icons and one in some of the apps. the "view new" overview would display "Releases Only" as the "Forum" for every one of these. Actually you'd have no idea what type of release it is until you open that thread: very userunfriendly.

#162099

Good suggestion, ont - I actually never use the "view new posts" feature, so I didn't know that...

#162100

yup, i have found myself confused with that same issue there Ont.. Good suggestion.

#162125

yeah thanks, always confused me...

anywayz I got another idea for that [filled] - thingie. would it be possible to let the post creator close the thread himself (that means, if you open the thread, you can close it by yourself if it is an request thread) the users could close theire post themselfes and add a comment what filled their request. would make a mod's job easier. another option would be kinda [filled] mods, or more mods in those categorys

#162171

Originally posted by ont@May 15 2004, 09:09 AM

yeah thanks, always confused me...

anywayz I got another idea for that [filled] - thingie. would it be possible to let the post creator close the thread himself (that means, if you open the thread, you can close it by yourself if it is an request thread) the users could close theire post themselfes and add a comment what filled their request. would make a mod's job easier. another option would be kinda [filled] mods,  or more mods in those categorys

That's not really a very good idea. Giving people the power to close thread topics themselves is a delegation of power among MANY individuals. I have always believed that modding power must be kept with a few individuals and that number must be in proportion with the number of members a forum has. Instead of aforementioned solution I think my solution of telling users to post a reply with *ASFilled* is much better as then we can develop some sort of bot that goes aroudn closing topics with *ASFilled* in them.

EDIT: Good suggestion about the 'Releases' thing.

#162322

Ok all, here's an updated version of the structure - I think I've got everything covered that's been mentioned.

If I've forgotten anything, let me know.

As before, please feel free to comment on the structure.

Also, if we can keep non-structural comments to a minimum (I'm going to post about the proposed new rules/processes sometime soon), that'd be nice

Main

--General Discussion (Discuss anything that is not related to any of the other forums)

--Customizing Discussion (Discuss customization-related topics)

--iLife (Discuss multimedia creation)

Applications

--General Applications (General application discussion)

--Developers Discussion (Discussion on application design/development)

--Developers' Forums (Discussion on community-made applicatiosn)

----Aqua Apps (Pinned, locked thread)

----Application Requests

----Other Application Releases

----Alilm's Apps

----Ave's Apps

----Moby's Apps

----Siwu's Apps

----Y'z Apps

--Samurize (Discuss Samurize related topics)

--Stardock (Discuss Stardock and their products)

----DesktopX

----Icon Packager

----Object Bar

------Object Bar Releases

----Object Dock

----Window Blinds

------Window Blinds Requests

------Window Blinds Releases

--Media Players (Discuss all media players)

----iTunes

------Requests

------Releases

Customizing

--Customizing Windows GUI (Boot/Login screens, etc.)

----Customizing Windows GUI Requests

----Customizing Windows GUI Releases

----Visual Styles

------Visual Styles Requests

------Visual Styles Releases

----System Files

------System Files Requests

------System Files Releases

--Customizing Other (Customizing *nix, MacOS, et al.)

----Customizing Other Requests

----Customizing Other Releases

--Skins (Skins for any applications)

----Skin Requests

----Skin Releases

--Icons & Cursors (Post your icons/cursors and ask questions...)

----Icon/Cursor Requests

----Icon/Cursor Releases

--Wallpapers (Post your wallpapers and ask questions...)

----Wallpaper Requests

----Wallpaper Releases

Software

--Cross Platform (Cross platform software discussion)

--Windows (Windows software discussion)

--Mac OS (Mac OS software discussion)

--*nix/Other (*nix/Other sofware discussion)

Hardware

--General Hardware (General hardware discussion)

--Apple (Discussion relating to all Apple hardware)

--x86 (Discussion relating to all "x86"/IBM-Compatible hardware)

Web

--General Web (General web-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

Forum

--Comments & Suggestions (Share your opinions and ask questions about Aqua-Soft...)

--Rules/FAQ (Explanation of all the forum rules/processes)

--Rips & Unauthorized Works (Report and discuss "ripped" works here)

--Trash Can (Where pointless topics go to die)

--News Archive (News from before 02-05-2004)

Staff Forums

--Private (Private forum for staff members)

----Tutorials (Tutorials for new staff members)

--Deleted (Posts which are offensive/break "key" rules)

Changed forums ever-so-slightly.

#162628

One question here...

Originally posted by Stevie BM+-->

QUOTE(Stevie BM)

----Application Requests

----Application Releases

----Alilm

----Ave

----Moby

----Siwu

if requests and releases are posted separately, what will be posted in each of the developers forums? will it be only for suggestions and/or bugs? or will the application requests/releases be subcategorized?

Originally posted by Stevie BM@

--Customizing Windows GUI (Boot/Login screens, etc.)

----Customizing Windows GUI Requests

----Customizing Windows GUI Releases

----Visual Styles

------Visual Styles Requests

------Visual Styles Releases

----System Files

------System Files Requests

------System Files Releases

--Customizing Other (Customizing *nix, MacOS, et al.)

----Customizing Other Requests

----Customizing Other Releases

--Skins (Skins for any applications)

----Skin Requests

----Skin Releases

Also, The abovementioned forums should have a general forum in which support to/about them can be given. Otherwise, members can only request or release something (or so it seems)

Furthermore, i see the same problem that the "releases" forums showed (not informative enough as to which type of release it was) with all the "general" subforums.

#162643

I don't think Requests should have their own forum...

We should not let everything have its own forum. Makes things look much more empty.

#162645

Timmie,

Web

--General (General web-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

Maybe this should be changed to:

Web/Graphic Design

--General (General web/graphic design-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Graphic Design/Development (Discussion on Graphic design's and sharing place for styles, templates etc.)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

#162649

Originally posted by Seph+May 16 2004, 11:46 AM-->

QUOTE(Seph @ May 16 2004, 11:46 AM)

[...]

Also, The abovementioned forums should have a general forum in which support to/about them can be given. Otherwise, members can only request or release something (or so it seems)

[...]

Developers with their own forums will post their releases in their own forums. "Requests" and "Releases" will primarily be for other developers' purposes - so, for example, if we have a new developer that arrives at A-S and releases something, they'd put that release into the "Application Releases" forum. Ave, however, would put his releases into his forum.

Originally posted by Seph@May 16 2004, 11:46 AM

Furthermore, i see the same problem that the "releases" forums showed (not informative enough as to which type of release it was) with all the "general"  subforums.

[...]

The "first level" forums (Customizing Windows GUI, for example) would function exactly as they do now - they'd be the general forum, if you like.

#162650

Originally posted by kjwebb@May 16 2004, 12:35 PM

Timmie,

Web

--General (General web-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

Maybe this should be changed to:

Web/Graphic Design

--General (General web/graphic design-related discussion)

--Web Design/Development (Discussion on web site creation)

--Graphic Design/Development (Discussion on Graphic design's and sharing place for styles, templates etc.)

--Community Sites (Discussion on members' sites)

Timmie's not the one who's been doing this work

Also, graphic design stuff comes under iLife. I'm still not happy with the name "iLife", personally... Any suggestions?

#162689