[editorial] All Members, Please Read This.

Many of you may be wondering why I have removed the downloads from my site. Well, the answer is simple.

There are TOO many customization sites up now with duplicate, triplicate, and sometimes more, files. It has gotten ridiculous. First, let me state that I will be providing downloads again, but on a limited basis, and only files I have created.

Too many of you are ripping authors and not giving them credit. This is wrong, no matter how you rationalize it. Your stealing. Just because you find something on the web doesnt give you Carte Blanche to rip them and call them yours. This includes PNG's and themes that you have "ported" from the original without recieving permission from the author. Just because you did the work in converting files from one format to another does not mean they are yours. And don't start with that "copyright" nonsense either. Artists have a right to their work, PERIOD.

We are being disrespectful and redundant. We need original works, original ideas, original files.

Now, I know alot of you get uber-excited about turning your PC into a Mac(if only by appearance), so I allow for that when I see posts about "Hey, LOOK! I have a new Aqua site!!!" But...I think we're losing focus.

The original intent for porting Mac themes and files was for Mac users to have an easier transition from one OS to the other. Ritchie Chow had this in mind with WinMac and the excitement grew. Next, we had emulators running Mac OS on our PC's in a window. All of this making it tolerable to use a PC and not be overwhelmed with Windows awkward and clumsy interface.

Now, after Apple's release of Mac OS X, we see how an OS can offer promise. Ease of use, attractive features, imbedded graphics acceleration, imbedded app support, inovative design and technology...the whole package. Mac OS X is, as we all know, most likely the best new OS in history. However, that has all been lost in the rush to provide the "pretty stuff", completely ignoring the easier transition. Now, it seems, the whole idea is "Look how cool it looks!".

We have some incredible designers making similar apps for Windows like iPhoto, iTunes, iCalc, Address Book, the Aqua-Apps, and much more. These apps should be our focus. These are the items we should be hosting and supporting.

I may seem like I am rambling, but there is a point to all of this.

The point: Calm down.

We don't HAVE to have 100 sites offering icons, cursors, wallpapers, etc. Right now, we have a few options I support, however. These options include the Aqua IRC channel, Design Technika, MobyDock's own page, Our page, Iceman's page, and maybe a select few beyond that.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, I commend your support, and I am glad to offer assistance, but lets not loose focus.

In closing, don't get all emotional over this post, it is my opinion. I invite you to post yours. Tell us how you feel. But, don't just post "Yeah, I agree" or "No, you suck!" and leave it at that. Explain your point. As you know, I don't delete posts if people disagree. Only if they get offensive, like sexist or bigotted remarks. I welcome debate. It's healthy.

Thank you.

#9490

The authors from which I converted with permission their themes have asked me not to post them on other sites. So they can't be on your endorsed sites, sorry. I'm keeping everything I do just on my site. Besides I like having a central place where I only have to update it once and let the people who care come and download.

The original intent for me porting anything is to get people interested in the original and to just plain let them have something they like. I have a friend who told me he wouldn't have gotten interested in it if it weren't for me. I also do it for myself and if someone else likes it then that is just a plus.

It is not my intention to disrespect anyone and I wouldn't like it if someone insinuated that I am disrespectfull.

This isn't just a mac thing. Though it has been my flavor of the moment recently.

Do you think that there should be some kind of authentication thing where it somehow checks to see if you have a mac and want to just be more comfortable when you use a PC? As if actually having a Mac is the entry fee for downloading anything ported from a Mac?

I'd actually would rather just keep this fun and not be a big old competition and have negative feelings and turn it into something complicated and a huge job.

Well, there's my 2 cents.. take it as you will.

#9498

Well, For me porting and all that emulating junk is simply because I was bored. I had exausted all my games and I was broke, so I couldn't buy more. While waddling around the net, I came across this community, and I figured that you couldn't emulate OS X that much. So I set out doing what everyone here does, and I (like many others) am now able to fool people into thinking its a mac. The point is that it took me weeks to collect all the little trinkets that I needed and it gave (and still gives) me a lot of entertainment. I dont have a Mac, so its not about transitions, its about doing something interesting and not doing your homework!

I dont think its really stealing. It may be rude, but no one here (except stardock) is charging for anything. And almost everyone gives credit to the original creator. We have to chill out with all this "stealing" stuff, Picasso ripped off everyone, and look where he got. I know I dont try to make my PC look exactly like a mac, i still need functinality. Im sure you could find a stray Windows flag.

The fact that Apple even thought of sueing people for emulating is reason enough for me to keep doing this (fight the power!).

#9503

Except stardock is only selling software that has the possibility in it to make it look like a mac. It's up to us what we want to do with it. There are a lot of people who use them just to do windows themes.

They aren't even selling objectdock for the reason that it's just a copy of something on the mac.

Oh yeah, and when I port a theme I just include what was included in the original theme because that's what looks best for that theme. If it's an apple logo on the menu button. So be it.

#9507

Yeah, I guess your right, but that makes my claim even more valid. No one is charging for Mac ported things.

#9508

I guess I should have posted that I wasn't focusing on anyone in particular, so if anyone is going to take this personally, I suppose it may be due to guilt.

smoke, I like your site, but I do hope you have permissions, that's all I'm saying.

#9514

If I respond to something it's because I have something to say and it's not out of guilt. If I don't voice my opinion no one is going to voice it for me.

And yes I do have permission, go look in Max Rudbergs web site. And I have kept e-mails. I have also been mentioned on other's sites such as Takashi Izawa as being authorizes so... What more can you ask?

Do you think I would say that I have permission when I don't?

#9517

Easy killer, I said I like your site. I wasn't bashing you.

#9518

You sounded like you where doubting me is why I said that.

#9519

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I use some of your files.

#9525

I have made the comment to people that create or will create an aqua or osx related website, to think twice, there are already sites that offer pretty much the same, there wont be any difference. I remember a lot of websites that maybe went down, because they are all the same, i think we should lower those websites, theres no point in everyone having the same and its own website.

About the credits, when the png mania was here, i saw some of my icons ported to png, without permission, and not even getting credits for some pngs. Maybe I dont want that they say, this icons are from xxxx, but maybe atleast recognize that those icons are from various artist, but not even that was done. I think we should recognize what others did, because mostly, no one says who provided that.

With many websites, with the similar content, there is nothing good on it, you wont offer anything that is worthy, you are "wasting" your time, in offering something that other offers.

just my thoughts

#9527

I agree that ripping other peoples icon sets and window themes is bad Karma, and the sheer number of sites now hosting/ripping themes etc. is getting so bad it's often hard to track down the goods you really want. It seems my moral stance on some of the issues is a little more lax than others here.. but that's just me and the way I am.

I may have different motives about my 'themeing' than many here. Personally I don't want to emulate a mac in any exact fashion which is why I don't use Aqua. I like many of the other ports like Smokes, Studio 28 etc. I also 'make' many of my own icons for personal use from the base sets already out there as the existing ones aren't always what I'm looking for.

I'm not planning on ever getting a Mac, however good they look and however advanced their OS may be. Mac hardware is generally trailing edge (aside from some port IO) and they are still underwhelming compared to a same price PC. I don't particularly like using Mac's as I find many of their long-standing OS operating methodology a pain (I like having a toolbar and menus on *all* my app windows rather than a single menu bar). Things may have changed a little since my last mac encounter, but probably not enough to curry my favours.

I *do* theme my windows to make it 'look cool', I hate dull boring desktops as much as a dull boring office and whatever bit's of Mac interface I use is simply because it looks better than the PC stuff. My whole Icon setup is borrowed from others.. so many I couldn't possible credit all the original authors If ever I wanted to release them, as for the most part I have no clue at this point who made what. I don't use ready made sets, I use whatever I like looking at. Not because it looks like a mac but because I like it, simple as that. Having said that I also don't share what I have because of the various copyright issues involved and the anality of some people (not here I hasten to add).

I do make my own skins, but I'm not particularly brilliant at it which is why they don't go out, that and the fact that they are only very loosely based on a mac-ish look. I also reshack my own dll's with the same aplomb. Some icons are standard mac fare, others are not. Who would I credit if I released my shell32.dll? Often it's not as easy as all that to know when you've crossed the line so I keep my shell32 to myself. I would love to share more with the community here, but not with things the way they are, and given the number of sites around why would my crap be needed anyway.

If I ever get the time and inclination I may create a complete set myself (I am an artist after all) but time is the real issue with me, it's far easier modding than making, so I continue to do my own thing and keep out of others hair. This is just a fun hobby for me, nothing more. My real involved interests lie elsewhere.

I totally agree with the points raised in this thread, just thought I'd put out a different perspective on how many people see things slightly differently to the hard line Mac makeover fanatics who want everything exact. I don't come here as a huge Mac fan, but as a guy who is looking for cool resources and good chat.

I know this site is dedicated to emulating the whole Aqua look, however, I'm here simply because I enjoy messing with my systems. Something I've been doing for a very long time.

Peace all

#9571

Thanks Smeggy, I appreciate your candor on the issue. Glad to see some constructive posts here.

Maybe it's guilt(he he), but I feel I must explain further. I don't condemn anyone who wants to make their desktops cool. I myself am a strong supporter of change. I just feel that we have an excellent opportunity for some great apps and creations that get lost in the mix of 1000 icon sites and the ilk.

I also support free enterprise and the ability to create a vast selection, but when that selection becomes re-hashed like a bad 8-track...quality is lost.

#9609

Amen Bro'.

#9624

I agree fully Duckie. I'll be the first to admit 3 or 4 years ago I was one of the ****ies that "ripped" sites or graphics, and called them my own. (I'm not bragging, I'm not proud of it, I'm simply stating that I've been there, and now know it's wrong.) In fact a while back when AstonShell was first getting started, I modified a few themes, threw them together to make a better theme, and then released it without proper notification and permission. It works for a while, before everyone starts noticing that these themes are basically the same things.

When you see a site that has the same design as another site, you kind of wonder not only about the site you are at, but also the other site that you saw it on. Who stole what? Which one of the sites wins? If you think about it, it's kind of degrading to both yourself and the other author as well.

I've also been on the other side of the fence, and had a design or two stolen before from me. In this day and age when people seem a little less worried about what is rightfully theirs, and considering how easy it is to actually steal something from the internet, you start to wonder. Where are we going with all of this?

When you take something of someones, maybe change it up a little, then call it your own without permission *which is stealing, any way you put it...* and then you get caught doing it it's not the funnest thing. You'll ruin your reputation, never be taken seriously, and then find out that if you would have taken the time to make something of your own, you would have been a lot better off. A lot people do this all the time, I bet everyone has probably done it once or twice...maybe just a little thing like a graphic, but still, it's stealing. (I don't do it anymore, by the way.)

As for the multiple "copy" site issue, there is a time when making "mirror" sites get to be where there are just too many damn mirror sites. Sure, it's nice to know that when you can't download a file from site a because it has bandwidth issues, you can go to site b or c and download it. But like Duckie said, you get tired of seeing "New Mirror Site" posted every two seconds. Then you have the problem of which mirror site has the new file? Or..."wtf...I just downloaded this, and it's the wrong version". All ends up being a big confusion. And this is my first real long post on this board...it may seem like I repeated some people, but oh well.

#9721

Duckie,

Why should we focus on AquaApps? This does not influence the "feel" of OSX. EVEN at that Most applications in the aquasoft community are written in VisualBasic6, which has a really buggy interface, let alone a closeness to feel of OSX. I'm not saying aquaApps are useless, they are awesome, but why should we 'focus' on it.

I do agree however that there are to many "rippers" of graphics. But, what doesnt make sense is how it seems like people are labled "rippers" of graphics if they take graphics from an 'artist' who exported from Mac.

I am shocked to hear that you claim there are too many Aqua Related sites. You seem to be jeleous .

I am thrilled at the interest of Skinning XP to OSX. "Too many" is a wrong way of wording it. "Excellent turnout" would be more correct. How can you judge the amount of Aqua Related sites? Its like me saying, "Duckie, you talk to much in a post". or "Duckie, your site is pointless, because it too has graphics"

I wont say that. I adore your site as much as the others. If people didnt make graphic related sites, OSX emulation would be defeated. It just makes no sense.

Oh, Never in my life have I seen someone post "I HAVE A NEW AQUA SITE!".

Every site serves its purpose. Whether its AquaSoft or Emaculation, i-Cons or AquaSource, AquaXP or Iceman, the AquaEmulation community would not exist without the fine support of these people.

Thats just my 2-cents.

#9729

Bill,

I think you may misunderstand, but i am being a bit vague I suppose, too.

Example: Someone sets up an Aqua related site and links to files on my site and Iceman's, effectively killing BOTH our sites. I'm not talking 2 or 3, I'm talking 20 to 25 sites, all linking to ours and killing our monthly bandwidth. Both Iceman and I have had to switch to new hosts and now we have to mirror our downloads. Hell, I havent even found a reliable host yet.

I'm also not insinuating noone should expand the scene. What I'm saying is that it's like cloning: Eventually the end product is just a mirror image, and it has lost it's luster.

Also, noone has created a NEW ObjectBar theme in ages. They just keep re-hashing the same old "AquaBar" theme.

My intent is to fuel change, or at least refresh our selection by introducing NEW files, not recycled.

Oh, and as for the list of sites you referenced; most all of them are appropriate and offer original ideas and files.

#9828

I think that all of these skin sites need to draft some editorial content. They all just post change logs, and then link to stuff. What's up with that?

Talk a little.

#9830

I agree with Ducky here.

The whole point is that people are overzealous when it comes to skinning and porting, especially when it comes to the sheer amount of resources and available content and designs that are out there.

It's not an isue of the community in general or of the idea of skinning etc., but rather it's common courtesy. It's a common prevelance of the human race of these generations to take and not give back. As a small example, the sheer amount of illegal downloads of Movies and programs (of which I am guilty for a few things but I try to buy) shows the prevelant attitude of greed. Everyone takes and no-one gives.

So basically, you get stuck with a bunch of leeches that couldn't give a **** about giving back to the community or doing anything beyond thier own self-gratification. (Sorry for obscenity but it fits)

So Duckie was really pointing how the greed and selfishness of these people really messes up sites, because nothing is for free, and the internet has changed into a heavily marketed arena. So, it's gonna really crash soon. Yahoo and other free sites come and go, and in the end, gonna be a Monopoly, where there is only one free parking, and it probably will be at Microsoft.

#9833

Originally posted by Duckie@Jan 14 2003, 04:32 PM

Example: Someone sets up an Aqua related site and links to files on my site and Iceman's, effectively killing BOTH our sites.  I'm not talking 2 or 3, I'm talking 20 to 25 sites, all linking to ours and killing our monthly bandwidth.  Both Iceman and I have had to switch to new hosts and now we have to mirror our downloads.  Hell, I havent even found a reliable host yet.

When people download files, they do it for a certain reason. Having links on a site directed to yours isnt and shouldnt be a problem. IF anything it should create less bandwith for you, because they are receiving only 1 file from you, instead of your whole web site. (that only makes sense) Its creating less bandwith for you. People dont download the same program over and over just to screw your bandwith. So, i dont see why you complain about bandwith on this matter. I do understand people dont give credits for the links, but the vast majority does.

#9895

I'm sorry Bill, but I don't see your logic. How is a webpage which consists of about 10-15kb of code and images hurting my bandwidth in comparison to a file exceeding 5mb's linked by 20-25 sites? My whole site, minus the files equals about 500kb. I'd have to have 100,000 hits a day to exceed my bandwidth limit.

However, by all those people getting over-excited about "aqua" stuff and linking to my files instead of creating their own, it hurt. I was given my site as a favor from Iceman, but due to the OUTRAGEOUS abuse, we lost both our sites, AND he lost his job because he worked for the host.

Anyway, this isn't all about the bandwidth issues. It's about redundancy and a lack of both imagination and creativity.

#9923

I really don't know where I stand in this situation....I myself am still relatively new to the Aqua scene. I can't write apps because I don't know a shread of code. I try to contribute to the community, however, with what I am good at- graphic design. I really can't say if my dock themes and PNG icons are as large of a contribution as a Y'z Dock or an AquaFinder, but it's a small offering that I take pride in because I created it myself.

I, along with Fletch, recently launched an 'Aqua' site, but I hope it is not the kind that Duckie complains of (after hearing Duckie's definition in an earlier post, I don't think it is). Sure I have links to his site as well as Iceman's, but they're links to the site, not their downloads...I can appreciate their desire to have traffic to the actual site, rather than just having their downloads siphoned away from them. I created every single graphic at Theme Dock except for one (the 'traffic lights') and put the thing together piece by piece. As payment for my work, I simply desire for the site to have visitors, and I would guess that Duckie and Iceman would feel the same way. I can see why they would be disappointed to have traffic diverted away from them by those that simply link to their work from other site without permission.

The only images that I can think of that I have used without permission are the images that I use to make my PNG icons, which I get from searches on altavista (movie stills, photos, etc.). If this offends anyone, I am truly sorry. I do not intend to steal the work of others.

I hope that this community continues to foster the talent it has yielded thus far, and that new talent emerges- and by that, I mean users creating original work to better the entire community. Adios!

-godpunk

#9929

Originally posted by Duckie@Jan 15 2003, 04:32 AM

I'm sorry Bill, but I don't see your logic.  How is a webpage which consists of about 10-15kb of code and images hurting my bandwidth in comparison to a file exceeding 5mb's linked by 20-25 sites?  My whole site, minus the files equals about 500kb.  I'd have to have 100,000 hits a day to exceed my bandwidth limit.

However, by all those people getting over-excited about "aqua" stuff and linking to my files instead of creating their own, it hurt.  I was given my site as a favor from Iceman, but due to the OUTRAGEOUS abuse, we lost both our sites, AND he lost his job because he worked for the host.

Anyway, this isn't all about the bandwidth issues.  It's about redundancy and a lack of both imagination and creativity.

Could you name these so called "linkers"? For all we know you could be saying this.

It wasnt LINKS that shut down Iceman's host. It was an internet attacker. Don't you understand this? Also, i dont think your files are extreemly popular that everyone on the aquasoft community would download them.

So, please, Prove me wrong and list me 20-25 DIRECT links to your files. (they must be separate sites)

And i dont see why you complain about Creativity. Some people may not seem to have it, so they take what is there and make it better (to thier understanding). I'm not saying its RIGHT (with all the no credit nonsense), but so be it. Besides, duckie, I havent seen you come up with anything spectacular within the last few months... (example, Look at your site). I'm not saying its bad, Im saying its LACKING the Creativity that you are Claiming to have.

Thanks for reading.

#10058

All of my releases have been thru this site. Do a search, you'll find them. My new host doesnt allow hosting files. I have a limited bandwidth, so I cant offer files yet.

As for our sites being shut down, yes, attackers EVENTUALLY shut down both of our sites, but direct linking was an issue as well. Iceman emailed me long before the attacks to say that we would be losing our sites due to usage.

The proof? That was lost with the logs when I switched hosts, unfortunately.

#10064

well, let me just say a few things.. im on no ones side first of all. But..

No matter where you will go on the internet... no matter how or what you do... you will always.. always i repeat always find vultures.. direct linking to a persons site... yo ucant stop it.. its just how the world works.. nothing is fair.. bandwidth is a problem yes... but when hosting a site you should also be aware of what may happen when hosting large files like 5megs each... you cant stop it.. and you cant avoid it. iv seen it ALL over the internet and its somthing that really cant be stopped... you can complain and complain and order people around to do so.. but it just wont happen... funny how the world works... So when building a webpage.. your gunna have to consider these things.. bandwidth.. hogging... direct file linking. If it gets to be too much.. just take the site down.. you dont "have" to have a site.. its nice... but if its that much of a problem.. just turn off the site or get rid of high sized downloads. (im speaking in general duckie.. not to you or your site in person)

but i know youd expect somepeople to comply and be reasonable about this.. and yes.. some people will.. but even just.. out of the blue surf by people who may not even be signed up to this forum can be direct linking to you too..

its just somthing that really cant be avoided....

-bolero

#10077