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Multi-Plugin 2.4 for iTunes 7


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Hello,

I have been using itunes6 with foobar2000 .83 with Kernal Streaming for a while.

I am trying to upgrade to itunes7/2.4.2/foobar .94 with ASIO or KS

My system is a mac mini running MCE outputing to a USB DAC (wavelength cosecant tube dac).

Foobar2000 v.94 works fine using ASIO plugin and ASIO4ALL to send to the DAC.

As a footnote, I use a M-Audio FW-410 for input, but it isnt 'doing anything' for playback.

After doing the regedit to copy the reg key around, foobar2000 passthrough works from itunes so long as I am *NOT* using ASIO or KS. Of course, the only reason for me to use multiplugin was to get the bit-accurate sound passthrough.

Any ideas? Basically if ASIO or KS is enabled I get no sound from itunes although the song 'plays'. Once again, if I just exit itunes and go into foobar2000, it shows the song I was attempting to play in itunes and plays it perfectly. Exit foobar, back into itunes and .... notta.

Any ideas?

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Downloaded it, played with it and it's working like charm.... apart from Foobar passthrough that is !!

Besides here are couple of things :

1) Like I asked before, is there Foobar 0.9.x support on the development roadmap of M-Plugin?

2) I don't think it's a MP problem but my iTunes is giving out horribally distorted sound output when QuickTime Audio Output is set to 96KHz/24Bit. When I take it down to 48.8KHz/16Bit all's well. No other apps having problem at outputting 96KHz/24Bit. So any idea what that might be?

and why would you need to use foobar if you only want 24bit sound? As long as your hardware and driver supports that you can produce 24bit sound with itunes alone ( have been able to do that ever since 6.something ). iTunes uses the configuration of quicktime and if you set up quicktime to play audio at 24/96 you get the same thing in iTunes. There is also a 192kHz in the latest version but it is buggy ( at least on my system ) and I do have pretty high end equipment.

Anyway just my 2c.

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and why would you need to use foobar if you only want 24bit sound? As long as your hardware and driver supports that you can produce 24bit sound with itunes alone ( have been able to do that ever since 6.something ). iTunes uses the configuration of quicktime and if you set up quicktime to play audio at 24/96 you get the same thing in iTunes. There is also a 192kHz in the latest version but it is buggy ( at least on my system ) and I do have pretty high end equipment.

Anyway just my 2c.

That's the not the only point. I know that iTunes can produce 24bit/96Khz sound ouput... BUT that's where the problem is. When I post that message, Multi Plugin (for iTunes 7) wasn't released with Foobar support... and iTunes was driving me crazy with horrible sound output at higher settings.

Secondly, I'm not using Foobar only for 24bit/96KHz output... in plain words it just sounds way better than iTunes/Quicktime sound output. :)

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i like the foobar passthrough mainly because my sound is clearer, but (maybe its cuz i dont use foobar enough) it seems like my bass levels go way down with foobar when compared to itunes. is this normal, or is there a way to boost the bass in foobar? and it also seems that the gapless playback doesnt work when foobar is enabled. am I doing something wrong, or do i need to change some settings?

im also getting the bug that itunes appears to be reinstalling itself when i start up itunes. its strange because it doesnt happen everytime. is this being fixed in the next version?

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Just a note before I start, this is only meant for audio enthusiasts...

Actually, on windows, foobar sure can sound much better...if you use ASIO and no-plugins.

iTunes goes through the windows k-mixer necessarily as far as I understand it - it has no support for kernel streaming or ASIO and all other streams lead to the k-mixer. k-mixer will *not* leave your bits alone even with no gain control - it *always* is doing 'some' mixing. Any touching of the bits will (and *does*) significantly degrade the sound quality for high end analog equipment...resampling/mixing will always have a significant impact on the bits of precision and the effects of the sampling algorithm itself...the people who do the mastering (on well recorded albums) spend a lot of time tweaking to get the sound 'just so'.

It took me over a week to figure out and really understand why itunes on the mac sounded *much* better than itunes on the PC (if you dont touch gain, it wont change the bits)- this was really upsetting as I was just wondering why it sounded so bad. I ended up trying JRiver Media Center, winamp, and foobar with ASIO such that the system would just pass the bits through to my dac ... I had excellent results re fixing the sound issues on Windows with ASIO (other than more blue screens) but wasnt happy with the overall environment - so I bought an intel mac mini just so I could play bit perfect audio for my home system with a well understood interface...btw I use only lossless ripped WAVs with full error correction from EAC - this also has a huge impact.

Of course this only matters if you have an analog system that is really up to the task...and great usb dacs like the 'brick' or the 'cosecant' from wavelength audio are great starting points. I strongly recommend reading up on some of the opinions expressed at http://www.wavelength.com/ in terms of pc audio especially regarding USB audio and clock jitter.

Anyway, if you want to take a look at my home system based on a dual-boot mac mini with a touch screen and driven by itunes/foobar...

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vo...1141775779&view

Now my mac mini dual boots XP MCE and I would love to leave it in MCE so I can use some other MCE features...if I could just get 2.4.2 to work with foobar .94 with ASIO!!!

Anyway, just one perspective with some experience behind it...

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iGo: Foobar200 does not sound better than iTunes. :/

Wanna bet????

before Multi-Plugin supported foobar passthrough, I said the same thing (because I had never used Foobar before that)... that iTunes sound is much better than most of the mainstream media players out there. Cause personally I found it sounded better than WMP or WinAMP (2.9x without any DSP)

Then I went in debate with some other people over Foobar, and I still stood with my opinion... all that smugness before I actually downloaded Foobar and played it and compared with iTunes, using all that I've got (My Yamaha AMP, Studio Headphones, Teknik Tower Speakers, Cosmic AMP, I even borrowed my dad's Bose speaker set for a while and so much so even downgraded to using iPod headphones on my PC for testing). Now, I can be a smug again and claim that Foobar (with ASIO or KS) sounds hell lot better than iTunes.

Offcourse like cct007 said, iTunes on Mac sounds much better than iTunes on Windows. I would like add to that, that another reason for that could be that QuickTime is way better implemented on Mac (being it's native homeground) than it's on Windows.

@raemonn: Dude, your Aqua skin looks promising but I would say that it's better not use to icons of one thing to something else. I know visually it might look better but if it's hampers functionality it's of no use. (I'm talking about using EQ icon from old iTunes for Browse button of new iTunes), because in the end hitting that EQ icon is going to end up in running browse mode. :)

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Originally Posted by iGo

@raemonn: Dude, your Aqua skin looks promising but I would say that it's better not use to icons of one thing to something else. I know visually it might look better but if it's hampers functionality it's of no use. (I'm talking about using EQ icon from old iTunes for Browse button of new iTunes), because in the end hitting that EQ icon is going to end up in running browse mode. :)

You're right. I've changed the equaliser buton back to browser. My old post have a download link, so You can try it if You want. :)

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cct007,

not sayin this cuz i wanna start a debate,i dont,but i have to put forth my opinion,

while im not too sure what foobar does to the sound,

maybe its the asio support,

but it sounds VERY different

highs a crisper than b4(itunes)

the lo mids are slightly tighter

u might not recognise it in the headphones(although i know ure using good ones)

i tested it in my studio on sony commercial speaker(where u dont hear much difference)

and also on

my trusted ALESIS M1 nearfields(i blindly trust them man,ive been usin them since a long time so i do notice if something has changed)

anyway

better sound or not,at least its better stability...

cheers

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@vishesh_i: As a matter of fact, in Headphones (Professional or Multi Driver stereo ones) you can actually make out the difference in sound quality than Tower speakers (unless you are in studio or soundproof room without any ambient sound interferrence).

The best part is, if you are using External AMP, DAC... you will definitely want to have unmolested audio input from your system to these things and that's exactly what Foobar provides. Even without this scenario it definitely sounds much better (Crisper) than iTunes sound on WIndows (it gets bit muddy and shallow at times to times, and *farty*/*scratchy*/*broken* since new iTunes 7).

By now I'm sure many will might as well say... why not use Foobar then? Why use iTunes at all?

Because, iTunes gives you simplest yet powerful interface to manage your Mp3s... and thanks to Localhost you get equally powerful sound output using Foobar, resulting in overall better experience. :)

By the way, Mp3s are still not best way to judge sound quality (They are compressed and their compression is lossy). Try using uncompressed WAV file in iTunes and in Foobar. :D

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I get an error when I try this with iTunes 7.0.1:

"The application or DLL C:Program FIlesiTunesPlug-insMplugin.dll is not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your installation diskette".

I have yet to try reinstalling Multi-Plugin. But iTunes 7.0.1 is great! It fixes the crackling audio issue.

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well... iTunes 7.0.1 is here, though I couldn't find any official changelog/list of bugfixes.. it seems it fixes *farty*/*Scratchy*/*broken* sound issue.

I guess I'll have to wait till tomm morning to try it on my office PC. Already downloading it on my mac (though it never had any issues on mac, it has become sort of habit with apple releasing new version every now n then).

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Multi-Plugin 2.4.2 works fine with 7.0.1.

btw, I'll fix the "The application or DLL C:Program FIlesiTunesPlug-insMplugin.dll is not a valid Windows image." with the new version.

It happens because Multi-Plugin leaves this file empty currently, I'll make it delete it instead.

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