[pininolopo]

Quick!!!!!

http://www.winstep.n...x.asp?cat=nexus

Winstep Xtreme comes with a dock with live reflections!!!
I have tested it, it's real reflection fx

The bad news are:
is not free...
is toooo complicated to configure.

Please, if you're developer, take a look to its code (reflection fx) so you can build a plugin for live reflection for RK, Objectdock, etc!!

[xfifteen]

Wow, nice find!

I haven't tested it, but it would be nice if there would be a free version.


I'm afraid though how much RAM it'll use, compared to other docks...

[schmrom]

I think a actual dock can be easily done with WPF so if someone is good in WPF programming jump on the train

[pininolopo]

I have 1G RAM, and is working good!

Winstep Extreme (unfortunally) is a headache, comes with taskbar skin, modules... thousands of ugly things that I prefer not to use... Only the dock, but the icons are too distanced...

I use Object Dock because it reserves desktop space, and is very good and versatile...
The only thing that I would like now, is to set the live reflection!!!

See my destop in this thread:
http://www.aqua-soft...ead.php?t=49211

It's very cool (but without live reflections)

[Phoshi]

oooh, downloading now.

Looks like a neat thing anyway, I've been looking for an explorer replacement (I think I broke mine <_<)

[ntchemist938]

I know the next version of OD+ wil include some new features so you never know....

[Phoshi]

Whole package isn't bad, really.
Dock is really really lacking, however.
<___< If OD++ has realtime relections, my reflected icons will look silly D:

[JcRabbit]

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is toooo complicated to configure

It's not too complicated too configure, but it does have lots and lots of options (I believe in user choice). Plus we're talking about a complete suite of applications that includes docks, sub-docks, shelf (tabbed dock), 8 widgets that are more like mini-applications each, a task manager, a fully customizable menu system and a hotspots manager.

You can change the most important/common settings via context menus, but, everything beeing fully customizable, it does have a learning curve if you want to go for the more complicated stuff - well worth the effort, in my opinion, plus it is the ONLY suite of applications in the customization scene that actually has a real User Guide, not just 1 page explaining the whole program (so, essentially, RTFM ;-) )

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comes with taskbar skin, modules... thousands of ugly things that I prefer not to use... Only the dock, but the icons are too distanced...

Err, that's why Winstep Xtreme is called a suite of integrated applications, all working together. The 'ugly things' (which, being skinnable are not ugly at all ;-)) are actually quite useful and add tremendous functionality to your desktop - just learn how to use them.

Anyway, if all you want to do is use the dock, then you can do so - just exit NextSTART and prevent it from running at startup(NextSTART takes care of the menus and task management part of Winstep Xtreme), close all the desktop widgets and disable the shelf. Bingo.

As I said, Winstep Xtreme is FULLY customizable.

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I use Object Dock because it reserves desktop space, and is very good and versatile...

Well, so does Winstep Xtreme - the shelf and docks can be made to reserve screen space as well, and the whole suite is multi-monitor compatible. Plus you can't beat Winstep Xtreme for functionality *and* versatility! The docks can have sub-docks, drag & drop works with every object in the file system (and not just normal files), and I could go on and on. Just browse the User Guides included with Winstep Xtreme to have an idea on how superior it is in terms of functionality comparing to anything out there.

Winstep Xtreme has been in constant development since 1998 - that's 10 years adding features. ;-)

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Dock is really really lacking, however.

In what department? Write me a list of features you think it's lacking and, more probably than not, I'll just tell you how to accomplish that with Winstep Xtreme.

Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies
Forums: http://forums.winstep.net

[Phoshi]

Copypasted from an FAQ, by any chance.

By lacking, I mean that I've used things like avant window navigator, and this dock seems inferior even to it. There's no way to animate the minimisation (Which is one of the big things about the whole feel of the dock), and the window previews were there regardless of whether the window is minimised or not.
Also, reflections, but a 2D background? Huh?

I couldn't find how to disable the shelf, so I gave up.
'It's not too complicated too configure'
Yes. Yes it is. Plus it's ugly

It's a very functional shell replacement, and were I using XP, I'd eat it up, but I'm not, and Vista, plus objectdock plus, does everything I want. And while it's more work to add the reflections, they're... how can I put this... nicer, with a 3D background. (Also, you ate my wallpaper, and did... something to explorer. It took me two hours to track down the culprit, a rouge DLL in system32. It might not have actually been you, but it was the same time.

OK, so, a nice list that would definitely get me interested. Proper 3D, with config for borders, depth of 3D, transparency of various parts (For example, my current dock has a transparent middle bit, but opaque center).

Not stealing half my desktop away when I run it, and starting pre-configured in some way. I want my dock, not someone elses.

I don't want to buy the other stuff, they're not for me, so perhaps offer each bit apart?
Also, I didn't notice the manual, so I'll take a look later, when I'm bored, see if I can get it right.

[JcRabbit]

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There's no way to animate the minimisation

What minimization are you talking about? The dock collapsing to the screen edge or running tasks minimization?

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the window previews were there regardless of whether the window is minimised or not.

Heh?! And you think that's bad?! Actually the other docks displaying icons for minimized windows IS the limitation! The whole purpose of window previews (or task snapshots) is to enable you to quickly identify a window among many similar ones using the same icon, regardless of them minimized or not. This is an odd objection, if you ask me...

Furthermore, the window previews in the Winstep Xtreme docks, shelf and taskbar are as close to 'live' under XP as it is possible without compromising performance. They're updated when the window caption changes, for instance, or when the window is restored.

Under Vista only the startbar snapshots are actually 'live', as doing otherwise would significantly decrease the performance of the dock magnification effect, for instance, even on fast machines (as can be observed in ObjectDock).

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I couldn't find how to disable the shelf, so I gave up.

Here are the MANY ways you can do this:

1 -Right click on the shelf's left mini-tab (the main context menu for the shelf) -> Dock and Shelf Management -> Close Shelf.
2 - Right click on the control icon for ANY dock -> Dock and Shelf Management -> Close Shelf
3 - Open WorkShelf Preferences, Shelf Preferences tab, very first option is 'Disable Shelf'.

Guess you didn't look very hard?

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Plus it's ugly

If you're talking about the Preferences screens (configuration), yes, I agree, and I'm currently working on them to give them Vista like look and vastly simplify them but without getting rid of all the advances options.

If you are talking about the menus, docks, shelves, modules, etc, etc, then you're not making any sense as everything is skinnable. It will be as good - or bad - looking as you want it to be.

Anyway, I really have to go now but I'll reply to your other points a bit later...

[Phoshi]

Ah, thanks, I've disabled the shelf

As for the window previews, yeah. The previews, to me, are purely cosmetic, I use flip3D and switcher to navigate, window previews are purely a look and feel thing. Seeing as you're so big on configuring, I'd have that as an option

By minimising, I mean when you minimise a window. Under OD, it does something nifty with the thumbnail API, I imagine, to make an image of the window get smaller until it is the preview in the dock.
Like I say, purely cosmetic, but it does alter the feel of the whole environment. I have to say, I really like it. (Objectdock does use the DWM, by the way, which is why I like it so)

As for ugly, I meant the prefs, calling something skinnable ugly is lunacy
Thanks for replying, though.

[JcRabbit]

Ok, my apologies for the previous half reply to your original post, but here goes the rest:

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It's a very functional shell replacement

Yes, it is. I can say for sure that, in terms of functionality and flexibility, there is NOTHING out there that even comes close to it. The price to pay, as you pointed out, is a Preferences screen that looks a bit like the ****pit of a 747 - it takes a while to learn the true power of Winstep Xtreme. Once you understand what it can actually do, however, you'll never use anything else.

While other shell enhancements concentrate mostly on eye candy, Winstep focus is on adding functionality - then eye candy.

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And while it's more work to add the reflections, they're... how can I put this... nicer, with a 3D background.

Heh? What does the background have to do with the icon reflections themselves? Plus, the icon reflections in Winstep Xtreme are

1) Automatic - Absolutely ZERO work involved on your part.
2) They work with ANY icon, including in-shelf/in-dock widgets.
3) Live - the icon changes, so does the reflection.
4) Customizable - you can decide how much of the icon is reflected, from 0 to 100%.

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Also, you ate my wallpaper, and did... something to explorer.

Burps! Tasted good, too, hehe

Seriously, Winstep Xtreme did not eat your wallpaper, it just changed it, as wallpapers are an important part of any theme. Your wallpaper is still there - just change it back using the Windows Desktop dialog and LOCK the Wallpaper in Winstep Xtreme (Preferences -> Theme Management -> Theme Options -> Lock Wallpaper) so changing themes no longer changes your wallpaper. You can also lock the current theme of any of the desktop widgets, if you want (see, what did I tell you about functionality )

As for doing something to Explorer, I can assure you Winstep Xtreme is blameless on that one. Winstep Xtreme is a shell enhancement, NOT a shell replacement. It behaves just like any other normal program, does NOT mess or interfere with any system files, and reverting back to normal Windows is a simple question of exiting Winstep Xtreme.

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Proper 3D, with config for borders, depth of 3D, transparency of various parts (For example, my current dock has a transparent middle bit, but opaque center).

You keep going back to eye candy issues. Winstep Xtreme can do all that and MUCH more! In fact, it is the only dock system out there that allows the use of complex overlays - either tile by tile or as a single bitmap above - or behind - dock icons. Go look in Wincustomize for NeXuS (the dock component of Winstep Xtreme) themes like NX-WaterBath, NX-Frostbite, etc... And those are simple overlays. You even have some included NeXuS only themes that use overlays (right click on the NeXuS control icon -> Dock Style Editor -> Themes and look for NX-Fire and NX-Lawn).

Having a dock theme with a transparent middle bit but opaque center is child's play for Winstep Xtreme - in fact, why don't you see for yourself? Just keep reading and you'll understand what I mean when I reply to your remark about OD themes.

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Not stealing half my desktop away when I run it

That one made me smile. Do you know you can configure Winstep Xtreme to run with an absolutely CLEAN desktop? Let's see:

1 - You can make docks either collapse to a single control tile or disappear onto the screen edge they're attached to. Bumping that screen edge brings it back.

2 - You can make the shelf collapse so only the tabs are visible. In fact, you can even make it collapse in such a way that only a thin line is visible.

3 - You can choose which desktop modules to use and which not. You can also HIDE all the currently open ones with a single key stroke or mouse click, and bring them back again when necessary - all of them or one by one. If you want, you can even attach the desktop modules to the NextSTART Startbar.

4 - You can make the NextSTART Startbar auto-hide onto the screen edge or into a small sliding handle.

5 - You can have Winstep Xtreme hide your desktop icons when it starts - you can then use the Desktop tab in the Shelf to access them whenever you need (oh, yes, did I tell you already that the Shelf can display the contents of virtual system folders like My Computer, Control Panel, Desktop, Printers, etc, etc...? It can even display the contents of any folder on your hard drives, with fully working drag & drop abilities). Now THAT is functionality - no other shell enhancement is currently able to do that.

The above capabilities, combined with NextSTART's unique hotspot system, enable you to run with NOTHING showing on your desktop except your wallpaper until you need it - if you're into minimalistic desktops, of course. Otherwise you can have your desktop as cluttered as you want - as I said, it's all about USER choice.

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and starting pre-configured in some way. I want my dock, not someone elses

Winstep Xtreme is an individual program. What do you mean 'your dock'? Just delete the stuff you don't want from the default dock and add the items you want either via drag & drop or via the Insert Item option in the dock's context menu. You only need to do this once and you had to do the same when you first installed ObjectDock (and any other dock systems)!

Heck, you can also create as many docks as you want, or even use NeXuS unique sub-dock system (where clicking an item on the dock can open another dock - or sub-dock, in this case - allowing you to categorize your dock contents and make the most of the available screen space). Search WorkShelf's User Guide for an example on how to do this.

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I don't want to buy the other stuff, they're not for me, so perhaps offer each bit apart?

Nah. Just disable the stuff you don't want. My advice to you, however, is to at least TRY to get used to the other stuff - if you do, you might find out that the whole is actually greater than the sum of the parts, as all Winstep Xtreme components were built from the ground up to work together and nicely complement each other.

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Also, I didn't notice the manual, so I'll take a look later, when I'm bored, see if I can get it right.

You can access WorkShelf''s User Guide from

1 - The Help item in the 'Main' Shelf tab.
2 - Right clicking the left shelf mini-tab or the dock's control icon -> Info -> Help
3 - Opening Preferences and clicking on the Help button at the bottom.
4 - Start Menu -> All Programs -> Winstep -> WorkShelf Help.

You can access NextSTART's User Guide from

1 - Main NextSTART menu -> Info -> NextSTART Help
2 - Opening NextSTART Preferences and clicking on the Help button at the top
3 - Start Menu -> All Programs -> Winstep -> NextSTART Help

I think you're catching my drift There are always several ways to skin a cat.

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you can't import my OD settings so I don't have to do ANY work, can you

Ahahaahh, you lazy sod. No, nor should you expect Winstep Xtreme to do so. But I can do you one better, actually: Winstep Xtreme can use ObjectDock, MobyDock, RocketDock and Y'z Dock themes if you want (bet you didn't know that one! ).

Just open My Documents and click on the Winstep shortcut to the Winstep User Data folder in Vista. Now open the NeXuS folder followed by Backgrounds. Copy your OD theme folders to the Backgrounds folder. Now right click on the dock's control icon -> Dock Style Editor and select 'Backgrounds' from the pull up menu on the top right corner. You will see all your nice ObjectDock themes ready to be utilized in Winstep Xtreme.

Have fun!

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As for ugly, I meant the prefs

Agreed! They are based on the NeXT OS look, which was an incredible advanced OS for it's time (we're talking 1998 here) but just looks old fashioned these days. Working on it, as I said - then again, once you have everything properly configured you should only need to open Preferences from time to time - not like you have to stare at it all day, hehe.

Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies
Forums: http://forums.winstep.net

[pininolopo]

[QUOTE=JcRabbit;502597]It's not too complicated too configure

Yes, it is... that is why I dont want to use it. And the configuration option are really confused. Maybe because you use it, but I spend many hours to configure... The configuration options in the main screen are confuse, only big icons, and it looks very old, like a old operating system.
There is not an clear option to enable or disable every Shelf... A simple choice list, with a column of Shelfs...

But, resuming, I finally get only the dock on my desktop, but I cannot configure 1 thing: space between icons!!

There's a Shelf that you can configure vertical and horizontal space between icons!!!! The question is: why Winstep doesn't include the same options for the dock????!!
If I can configure this option, surely I can use Winstep Nexus!

Other "strange" thing is the way of icons get resized.. if you choice other than the standar sizes (16, 32, 48) say... 20 or 34 pixels, the icons (like rounded ones) looks very pixelated...

Please, if you know how to configure the space between icons, I will appreciate that you tell me how

[Phoshi]

Heheh, I'll give them all a shot, then.
Yeah, I assumed it wasn't winstep, it was an oddly named DLL in system32. (Why to virus writers think that a nonsensical name will make me any less likely to go 'Mmmm, no, I'm deleting you', anyway?)
I'm glad you liked my wallpaper, it's a nice, dark, space-y type, goes well with my visual style.
okies, ;et's have some fun

Oh, and 'What does the background have to do with the icon reflections themselves?'
I've always found a 3D dock at the right angle looks much more aesthetically pleasing. But then, that's more eye candy.

[JcRabbit]

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it looks very old, like a old operating system

Sigh. Yes, I have to agree with that one. They're based on Steve Job's NeXT OS (the OS that started all this shelf and dock crazyness). Anyway, as I said, Preferences are being completely re-worked to bring them up to 2008 standards.

I'm aware that Preferences are cluttered with options, but what I meant by easy to use is that the most often used options are all available via simple context menus. Basically everything in Winstep Xtreme has a context menu related to that object only.

All basic functionality is also intuitive - you want to add stuff to or move stuff in docks, menus and shelves, just do it via drag & drop, as you are used to - and use the right click context menus for most everything else.

The problem is when you want to harness the true power of Winstep Xtreme, then yes, there are so many options that you can easily get lost - this is where reading the quite complete User Guides helps a lot. Anyway, again, the new Preferences will also take care of this problem.

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Other "strange" thing is the way of icons get resized.. if you choice other than the standar sizes (16, 32, 48) say... 20 or 34 pixels, the icons (like rounded ones) looks very pixelated...

That's actually a problem with the way Windows retrieves icons, and it won't happen if you use standard icon sizes or PNG images instead of icons. I think this only happens in the shelf? Anyway, I'll look into this for the next release.

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if you know how to configure the space between icons, I will appreciate that you tell me how

Icon spacing is currently hard coded to 16 pixels (i.e. each icon is 8 pixels away from the dock's edges, e.g. there are 16 pixels between each icon) to allow for things like the icon bounce effect when you launch an item and sub-dock indicators. However, I've been thinking about making this a user choice in the next release - guess your post just convinced me (See? Now you understand how Preferences can quickly become cluttered with lots of options ).

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I've always found a 3D dock at the right angle looks much more aesthetically pleasing.

You mean a 3D dock like this one?



or like this one?

[JcRabbit]

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There is not an clear option to enable or disable every Shelf... A simple choice list, with a column of Shelfs...

Sorry, forgot to reply to this one:

Right clicking on the shelf's left mini-tab to open the main context menu and then clicking on 'Shelf Editor' will give you the choice list you are talking about. The Shelf Editor also allows you to shuffle and rename tabs.

You can also simply right click on ANY of the Shelf's tabs to delete or rename that shelf or insert a new shelf at that position. As previously explained, most of the common actions are available via context menus, and those are easy to use.

[GameBoyzGB]

Nice but unfortunately the reflections act like they are stuck to the icons unlike the reflections on Leopard wherein the distance from the icon is relative to the icon's distance from the base of the dock. (eg. when the icon bounces upward, the reflections move downward and when the icon lands back on the base, the reflections move upward to almost touch the icons.) Also the dock of Leopard actually reflects the background and any window or image that is close to it.

[JcRabbit]

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Nice but unfortunately the reflections act like they are stuck to the icons unlike the reflections on Leopard

Yes, the reflections are 'stuck' to the icons for performance reasons. Still much better than having no reflections at all, static reflections or having to fake them yourself in Photoshop for each and every icon.

Anyway, don't forget Winstep Xtreme is always work in progress and that the icon reflection effect is brand new in Winstep Xtreme. Although I won't go as far (at least not for the next release) as making the dock base reflect windows and other objects close to it, I was already thinking about 'detaching' the reflection from the icon when the later is bouncing up and down to make the effect more realistic.

I guess I can safely say you can count on that happening in the upcomming Winstep Xtreme 8.6 release.

[Phoshi]

Nice to see you taking our opinions into consideration!

How could I remove the 'neXus' icon?

[JcRabbit]

You can't remove it, it's the control icon - but you can skin it if you want:

Put a nxcontrol.png/ico/tif file in the theme's folder (don't want to give you a crash course in WSX skinning, of course, but, assuming you are using a native NeXuS theme and not a OD Background: open WorkShelf Preferences > Themes Manager -> Select NeXuS from the pull up menu at the top -> Click on the folder button. This will open the theme's folder in Explorer).